Scott,
After so many years of work your serious consideration of the quantifier question is gratifying. I apologize that my exposition is so recondite to the uninitiated. Some of your sentences seem awkward to me.
He has some more nerve control than a woman has.
The some seems to be a substitute for the comparative clause which makes it seem redundant when they are both there.
With that ounce more of nerve control than a woman has, he was able to succeed.
The of seems unnecessary, as the ounce tells us already that more is an amount modifying "nerve control."
Your questions: (1)
Does that govern the position of more in "that ounce more"?
I think you mean by "govern" that it is in construction with more. I think your examples show that it is not, viz., *He has that more ounce of nerve control we all want.
(2) Does "that ____ more" only work with units of measurement?
The adjective much works fine here. It is because more is the comparative of much that the rule describing them in this construction is recursive. In your sentence, He has more ounces, the adjective would be many, "He has that many more ounces."
Could you reasonably read "that ounce more" as a noun phrase with a post-positional comparative adjective?
What later misconceptions might such an explanation lead to with students who are just beginning their grammar journey?
These are philosophical questions that I am not prepared to respond to directly. I am reminded how in physics the dimension of time is often taught as though it could be modeled by a number line, like the other three dimensions of space-time. This gives students the impression that time travel might be possible. This may lead even reputable philosophers into the trap. The practical model has time as a vector, measured in either direction, to be sure, but with its origin moving inextricably forward through sequentially ordered experiential space.
Bruce
Dear List,
Please consider these sentences:
He has more nerve control than a woman has.
He has some more nerve control than a woman has.
*He has that more ounce of nerve control than an woman has.
He has that ounce more of nerve control than a woman has.
He has six more ounces of nerve control than a woman has.
He has that ounce of nerve control we all want
He has that ounce more of nerve control we all want.
He has that additional ounce of nerve control we all want.
*He has that more ounce of nerve control we all want.
He has an additional ounce.
He has more ounces.
*He has more ounce.
He has more nerve control.
He has more hay.
He has additional hay.
He has an additional horse.
*He has more horse.
He has more horses.
He has more horsepower.
He has that gallon more of gasoline than his competitor has.
He has that day more of time than his brother has.
With that ounce more of nerve control than a woman has, he was able to succeed.
Does "that" govern the position of "more" in "that ounce more"?
Does "that ____ more" only work with units of measurement?
Could you reasonably read "that ounce more" as a noun phrase with a post-positional comparative adjective?
What later misconceptions might such an explanation lead to with students who are just beginning their grammar journey?
Thanks,
Scott Woods
There is a description of the quantifier construction in my Analytical Syntax of English. There are several kinds of quantifier. The construction in question is described as a nominalization of more the comparative of much (or many). The presence of of is optional in this case in the sense that the interpretation remains the same, whether the adjective is used as a pronoun or not.
Bruce
I was wondering some of the same things.
These structures are also often elliptical. “He spent more money than Sally spent” can become “he spent more than Sally” with “money” and “spent” as understood. In that sense, “more” could be working somewhat like a fused head. (“I was the first [child of my parents] to go to college.” “Of all our problems, this is the worst.” “You gave what you needed to last week; this is more.”
It seems to me clearly that “ounce” and “dollar” are helping to quantify how much more. I would say that “a dollar more than she did” is the direct object, but “more” is acting like a fused head. It can only do so effectively if “money” is understood.
If you say “he sleeps more every day,” then “more” would be adverbial.
Craig
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dick Veit
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 9:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: grammar question--more...than
This discussion leads me to wonder about the parsing of sentences like this:
He spent a dollar more than she did.
1. Is "a dollar" the direct object of the verb "spent?
2. Or is "a dollar" a quantifying adverbial modifying "more"?
The following supply evidence for the second analysis:
He spent little.
He spent more than she did.
He spent slightly more than she did.
He spent a lot more than she did.
He spent a dollar more than she did.
If so, is "spent" intransitive here, with "a dollar more than she did" an adverbial, or is "spent" transitive, with "more" as its object?
And how about Scott's sentence ("...he has that ounce more of nerve control than a woman has")? Is "more (of) nerve control" the object of "has," with "that ounce" being a quantifying adverbial? Some related sentences:
She has more control than he has.
She has more.
She has a little more than he has.
She has an ounce more than he has.
Any thoughts?
Dick
Dear List,
How would you analyze more in the following sentence:
And while a man may feel like [screaming], he has that ounce more of nerve control than a woman has.
How would you explain its relationship to than?
Thanks,
Scott Woods
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