Bob,
     Believe it or not, the author of the article writes that the teachers found many students couldn't write sentences with simple conjunctions like "but" or "or." 
    They Say/I Say often lists a number of terms that can be used for similar purposes. But when you practice using the terms, it turns out that they are not at all interchangeable. "Although" subordinates what follows it, whereas "however" and "but" do not. You can use "however" in various sentence slots. "But" often signals a change in direction between much larger stretches of text. These are, of course, classified as subordinating conjunction, conjunctive adverb, and coordinating conjunction because of the ways they act. If students are to use them as resources, it helps to reflect on the ways they differ from each other.

Craig
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Robert Yates [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:02 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Atlantic Writing Articles

Craig, 

I took seriously what you wrote.  Now you tell me that students have difficulty with although.  That has been my experience, too. Let's return to the sentence that prompted my original comment:

Certain kinds of sentences make certain kinds of meaning possible, and students can’t read or write to the extent that they don’t understand and can’t produce those form/meaning relationships. 

What kinds of meanings are only possible with "although"?   Is it not the case that such a meaning can be made with the use of but or however?

Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri


On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Bob,

    I think the position would be much clearer if you read the article. They claim that many 14 or 15 year old students were unable to write sentences using, for example, words like “although.”  They came up with courses in “analytical writing” that include attempts to remedy that. For a similar approach at the college level, see “They Say/ I Say: The moves that Matter in Academic Writing” (Graf and Birkenstein), which offers a number of sentence level “templates” as part of its program. Stanley Fish also advocates analyzing and imitating sentences. “Practice in the analyzing and imitating of sentences is also practice in the reading of sentences” ( Fish, How to Write a Sentence: And How to Read One, p.9). The Atlantic article focuses on a failing school that was able to improve remarkably largely—as they see it—because of the implementation of a writing curriculum that pays explicit attention to sentences as ways to generate certain kinds of meaning.  Graduation rates have gone from 63 percent to 80, passing rates on Regents exams (this is a New York requirement) have improved dramatically in both English and history (where essays are involved), more students are taking advanced classes that carry college credit, and so on.

    They may be wrong for doing what they are doing, but it seems to be working. Without this turnaround, the school would have been shut down.

 

Craig

 

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Yates
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2012 4:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: The Atlantic Writing Articles

 

Colleagues,

 

I am puzzled by the following:

 

Certain kinds of sentences make certain kinds of meaning possible, and students can’t read or write to the extent that they don’t understand and can’t produce those form/meaning relationships. 

 

I have no idea what this means.  What are the kinds of sentences being referenced and what are the kinds of meanings those particular types of sentences make possible?  This seems to me to be a very, very strong claim: If a language user can't produce a particular kind of sentence, then that language user is unable to formulate certain kinds of meanings.  I would love to have some examples. What kind of sentence-meaning relationships prevent students from reading and writing?  Examples, again, are useful to understand the claim. 

 

Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Geoff,

    The Atlantic article is the key to all this, and it’s getting much deserved attention.

   The key, I think, is a new tendency (see Stanley Fish) to think of sentences as “templates.” Form constrains, but it also enables. Certain kinds of sentences make certain kinds of meaning possible, and students can’t read or write to the extent that they don’t understand and can’t produce those form/meaning relationships. Added to that is the notion that literacy is “taught, not caught.” Letting  students enjoy what they read and write to express themselves as the CORE of the English curriculum has not produced the results that are often predicted, especially for nonmainstream students. It could very well be that students learn to love reading when they become better at it, not the other way around. But this is not simply a return to drill and grill grammar or the old fetishistic over-concern with “error.”  Students learn “moves” that are available in and through the grammar. It expands the repertoire, or at least aims to. And it seems to get results.

   I have been using similar approaches at the college level and like the results.

 

Craig

 

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 11:14 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: The Atlantic Writing Articles

 

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