Great group!
I made some comments last year about the difference between a gerund and an imperfect participle. Herb pointed out that the distinction goes back to Old English times. Our orthograhphy today disguises the difference.
Geoffrey noted that in the phrase "smoking hot" the pronunciation is sometimes emphasized in the spelling "smokin' hot." This is quite distinct from "smoking jacket" where the phrase "smokin' jacket" can only be contrasted with it, as Craig has pointed out. In the first case the attribute is classifying (attributive noun, i.e., gerund) whereas in the second it is explanatory, i.e., non-restrictive. These tests on the pronunciation and the meaning seem to be quite helpful in distinguishing the two constructions.
The construction with an adjective (imperfect participle) is sometimes equivalent to an instance of hendiadys: the expression of an idea by the use of two independent words connected by "and" (as "nice and warm") instead of the usual combination of independent word and modifier (as "nicely warm"), cf. Meriam-Webster. Hence, the expression "smoking and hot" would have to be the adjective form in hendiadys.
I take the "brand" in "brand new" to be a noun. The interpretation for me is that it is still possible to see the brand name or insignia on the article. Like the "smoking" in "smoking jacket" this is a noun used attributively. There are thousands of compound nouns of this sort, only some of them have been awarded with a separate entry in the dictionary. There seem to be about three score different ways to interpret such compound nouns in paraphrastic terms, i.e., as the two nouns might relate to each other in a simple sentence, e.g., a "smoking jacket" => "a jacket in which someone smokes", cf. Robert B. Lees, "The Grammar of English Nominalizations."
Bruce
For intensifiers, we also have "f...ing crazy" and the like. I was watching the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction last night, on a cable channel, and almost everyone was described as "f---ing" something.
If we had "blazing hot sun" as a noun ohrase, then "blazing" could be an intensifier OR act separately as a modifer, which we could make clear by adding a comma (blazing, hot sun) or intoning accordingly. I could also imagine a filem director saying "We need a blazing sun for this next shot," in which case "blazing" would be narrowing the category down.
When the -ing form acts like a noun in a noun phrase that it does not head, I think it tends to have a "kind of" meaning, as in "parking lot." We can also have "parking customer," which would be much more transitory. "He put on his smoking jacket." "He coughed from the smoke pouring from the smoking jacket." Both "smoking"'s are acting as modifiers in their noun phrases, but they offer a different kind of meaning built entirely out of the grammar.
If we were going to call the -ing form any one thing, I think "present participal" is the best. We can then say that it shows up in a number of different contexts and can act differently within those contexts and can act ambigiously because of that. I don't see any value in calling it a gerund in the above instances.
I think we all miss the talk. I'm glad to be reminded about how thoughtful it can be. I hope my own rambling hasn't changed that.
Craig
I hate to correct you, but the term is "smokin' hot!"
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 23:02:21 -0500
From:
[log in to unmask]Subject: Re: grammar question/adverb or adjective
To:
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I can think of some people who are smoking hot.
And speaking of degree modifiers, I wonder what the origin is of "brand" in "brand new." Are there other degree adverbs that modify only one particular adjective?
Nice to have this list back from hiatus.
Dick
Dear List,
In the sentence "The sun is usually blazing hot," how would you analyze "blazing"?
Thanks,
Scott
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