Craig,
There is, however,. a tradition in English linguistics and English grammar to use the term -en form. It certainly links the modern strong and weak forms with their Old English and Proto-Germanic reflexes. Of course, the past participle forms remain messy.
Weak verbs, that is, verbs using the dental preterit, like "want/wanted" or "think/thought" have only two principal parts, since the preterit (past) and the participle are identical. Weak verbs, as "think/thought" shows, are not the same as regular verbs.
Strong verbs, those verbs that do not use the dental preterit but rather change vowels, add -en, etc., frequently have three principal parts, as with "give/gave/given" or "swim/swam/swum," but may also have just two, usually collapsing the preterit and participle,
as in "sit/sat/sat." Historically, strong verbs have been undergoing two broad sorts of change. "Help" has become a weak verb, but we all know the KJV line from the Magnificat "He hath holpen his servant Israel," showing that strong forms still persisted
in Early Modern English.
I think we're stuck with -en form and a certain amount of complexity because the English verb systems still displays that complexity.
Herb
Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
Emeritus Professor of English
Ball State University
Muncie, IN 47306
[log in to unmask]
Herb,
I like very much the idea of using "-ing form" as a term, in part because it clearly designates a form and then leaves separate the description of its functions. The argument for "present participle" might be that it is (was?) in widespread use, but
you immediately have to explain that it is independent of tense and present time.
What would you do with what has historically been called "past participle?" In most cases, it's formally identical to past tense form, in some cases not. It's hard to call it an -ed or -en form in the same simple way.
Craig
Why not just "-ing form" then, since the varied uses are functionally defined.
Herb
Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
Emeritus Professor of English
Ball State University
Muncie, IN 47306
[log in to unmask]
For intensifiers, we also have "f...ing crazy" and the like. I was watching the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction last night, on a cable channel, and almost everyone was described
as "f---ing" something.
If we had "blazing hot sun" as a noun ohrase, then "blazing" could be an intensifier OR act separately as a modifer, which we could make clear by adding a comma (blazing, hot sun) or intoning accordingly. I could also imagine a filem director saying
"We need a blazing sun for this next shot," in which case "blazing" would be narrowing the category down.
When the -ing form acts like a noun in a noun phrase that it does not head, I think it tends to have a "kind of" meaning, as in "parking lot." We can also have "parking customer," which
would be much more transitory. "He put on his smoking jacket." "He coughed from the smoke pouring from the smoking jacket." Both "smoking"'s are acting as modifiers in their noun phrases, but they offer a different kind of meaning built entirely out of the
grammar.
If we were going to call the -ing form any one thing, I think "present participal" is the best. We can then say that it shows up in a number of different contexts and can act differently within those contexts and can act ambigiously because of that.
I don't see any value in calling it a gerund in the above instances.
I think we all miss the talk. I'm glad to be reminded about how thoughtful it can be. I hope my own rambling hasn't changed that.
Craig
I hate to correct you, but the term is "smokin' hot!"
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 23:02:21 -0500
From:
[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: grammar question/adverb or adjective
To:
[log in to unmask]
I can think of some people who are smoking hot.
And speaking of degree modifiers, I wonder what the origin is of "brand" in "brand new." Are there other degree adverbs that modify only one particular adjective?
Nice to have this list back from hiatus.
Dick
Dear List,
In the sentence "The sun is usually blazing hot," how would you analyze "blazing"?
Thanks,
Scott
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/