Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_000_A7E8E56687445D4ABBBDFB0A2199D8F8CB38A7AFMAIL22nvccedu_-- ========================================================================Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 20:01:10 -0500 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: mailing list problem In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_3d6615c7-ef25-4507-8388-c537993eb1c9_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_3d6615c7-ef25-4507-8388-c537993eb1c9_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You should be getting the next one soon. Geoff Layton, Editor Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 20:02:01 +0000 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem To: [log in to unmask] The last journal I received was Volume 22- Fall 2012. Til Turner ESL Faculty Northern Virginia Community College http://blogs.nvcc.edu/tturner/ www.englishiskillingme.com Ph: 703.323.3269 From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Geoffrey Layton [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 1:25 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem Is everybody getting the ATEG Journal? > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:36:13 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: mailing list problem Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_3d6615c7-ef25-4507-8388-c537993eb1c9_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_3d6615c7-ef25-4507-8388-c537993eb1c9_-- ========================================================================Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:04:56 -0400 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: Joseph Mckibban <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: mailing list problem In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D0385DCC2E19B5_11C4_29C3F_webmail-d213.sysops.aol.com" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D0385DCC2E19B5_11C4_29C3F_webmail-d213.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" No, I haven't received one for some time. -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> To: ATEG <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 1:25 pm Subject: Re: mailing list problem Is everybody getting the ATEG Journal? > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:36:13 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: mailing list problemVisit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ----------MB_8D0385DCC2E19B5_11C4_29C3F_webmail-d213.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" No, I haven't received one for some time.

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ----------MB_8D0385DCC2E19B5_11C4_29C3F_webmail-d213.sysops.aol.com-- ========================================================================Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:28:49 -0500 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dixon, Jack" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: mailing list problem In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0F79F16D80ACAF4697CCB4902BACE2ED3486CB9319LSCSMAILCLSCS_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_0F79F16D80ACAF4697CCB4902BACE2ED3486CB9319LSCSMAILCLSCS_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I cannot remember the last time I received the ATEG Journal. Jack ________________________________ From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joseph Mckibban [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:04 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem No, I haven't received one for some time. -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> To: ATEG <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 1:25 pm Subject: Re: mailing list problem Is everybody getting the ATEG Journal? > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:36:13 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: mailing list problem Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_000_0F79F16D80ACAF4697CCB4902BACE2ED3486CB9319LSCSMAILCLSCS_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_000_0F79F16D80ACAF4697CCB4902BACE2ED3486CB9319LSCSMAILCLSCS_-- ========================================================================Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:56:08 -0400 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: Gregg Heacock <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: mailing list problem Comments: cc: "Dixon, Jack" <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Fellow Members of ATEG, My problems with being on the mailing list began when I wrote an article that appeared in the last ATEG Journal. That's when I signed up officially and paid for three year's membership just to be sure to get the Journal sent to me. That is also when my email from ATEG stopped. Eventually I was able to deal with the problem though it occurred again this year and remained until I responded to a general email asking whether people wanted to be included in receiving ATEG emails. Though I thought this had again become a problem, I am pleased to see that it is not. However, this is not my reason for writing. I see that some people did not get a chance to read that last issue of the ATEG Journal. Though I liked my piece, I was prouder still to see it included with such excellent articles on grammar. They were good enough to raise the question of whether this publication should be offered as a subscription option for the National Council of Teachers of English, NTCE. I pose that question to you now. Too long we have been the bastard child of the NTCE. It seems time for us to call upon them to recognize the importance of grammar to teachers of English at all levels and to offer their members the option of selecting our journal as one their members might receive. Naturally, we would need to see that we could rise to the occasion and deliver the ATEG Journal to all who request it. But the task would give us reason to see that our own members receive it, too. Truly, the whole journal was a revelation to me, and I think it would be one to many of those I taught with over the years. I encourage you to give this the consideration it is due. The people in this organization deserve to be welcomed into the family of NTCE affiliates and given parity with them. I am curious to hear what others think about this, Gregg Heacock ---- "Dixon wrote: > I cannot remember the last time I received the ATEG Journal. > > Jack > > ________________________________ > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joseph Mckibban [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:04 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: mailing list problem > > No, I haven't received one for some time. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> > To: ATEG <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 1:25 pm > Subject: Re: mailing list problem > > Is everybody getting the ATEG Journal? > > > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:36:13 -0400 > > From: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: mailing list problem Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ========================================================================Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 13:52:15 -0500 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: mailing list problem In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_14654444-961e-438d-87db-94c7ccadd314_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_14654444-961e-438d-87db-94c7ccadd314_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you haven't been receiving the Journal, the first question to ask is whether your membership is active. Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:04:56 -0400 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem To: [log in to unmask] No, I haven't received one for some time. -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> To: ATEG <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 1:25 pm Subject: Re: mailing list problem Is everybody getting the ATEG Journal? > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:36:13 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: mailing list problem Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_14654444-961e-438d-87db-94c7ccadd314_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_14654444-961e-438d-87db-94c7ccadd314_-- ========================================================================Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 13:53:58 -0500 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: mailing list problem In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_3ddb20b8-406d-48c1-b244-a569cb3ba8e4_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_3ddb20b8-406d-48c1-b244-a569cb3ba8e4_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See previous comment - is your membership active? Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:28:49 -0500 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem To: [log in to unmask] I cannot remember the last time I received the ATEG Journal. Jack From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joseph Mckibban [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:04 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem No, I haven't received one for some time. -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> To: ATEG <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 1:25 pm Subject: Re: mailing list problem Is everybody getting the ATEG Journal? > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:36:13 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: mailing list problem Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_3ddb20b8-406d-48c1-b244-a569cb3ba8e4_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_3ddb20b8-406d-48c1-b244-a569cb3ba8e4_-- ========================================================================Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:01:06 -0500 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: "Dixon, Jack" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: mailing list problem In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_0F79F16D80ACAF4697CCB4902BACE2ED3486CB931ELSCSMAILCLSCS_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_0F79F16D80ACAF4697CCB4902BACE2ED3486CB931ELSCSMAILCLSCS_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought it was, but how would I find out? Thanks. ________________________________ From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:53 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem See previous comment - is your membership active? ________________________________ Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:28:49 -0500 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem To: [log in to unmask] I cannot remember the last time I received the ATEG Journal. Jack ________________________________ From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joseph Mckibban [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:04 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem No, I haven't received one for some time. -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> To: ATEG <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 1:25 pm Subject: Re: mailing list problem Is everybody getting the ATEG Journal? > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:36:13 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: mailing list problem Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_000_0F79F16D80ACAF4697CCB4902BACE2ED3486CB931ELSCSMAILCLSCS_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_000_0F79F16D80ACAF4697CCB4902BACE2ED3486CB931ELSCSMAILCLSCS_-- ========================================================================Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:18:28 -0500 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: mailing list problem Comments: cc: Amy Benjamin <[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_495df105-25ea-4c78-b354-9cb78bd42173_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_495df105-25ea-4c78-b354-9cb78bd42173_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check with Amy Benjamin - our co-president, membership chair, conference organizer, and ATEG Journal circulation manager. [log in to unmask] Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 17:01:06 -0500 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem To: [log in to unmask] I thought it was, but how would I find out? Thanks. From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2013 1:53 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem See previous comment - is your membership active? Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:28:49 -0500 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem To: [log in to unmask] I cannot remember the last time I received the ATEG Journal. Jack From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joseph Mckibban [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2013 11:04 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: mailing list problem No, I haven't received one for some time. -----Original Message----- From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> To: ATEG <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 1:25 pm Subject: Re: mailing list problem Is everybody getting the ATEG Journal? > Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2013 00:36:13 -0400 > From: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: mailing list problem Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_495df105-25ea-4c78-b354-9cb78bd42173_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_495df105-25ea-4c78-b354-9cb78bd42173_-- ========================================================================Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 09:11:40 -0700 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: Odile Sullivan-Tarazi <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Construing "how to" and "what to" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) In a sentence such as "you will learn how to " or "you will learn what to ," how would you construe and diagram those cores? (I mean, in terms of Reed-Kellogg diagrams.) Would the infinitive phrases be up on stilts in the direct object position? With "how" in the adverbial slot, "what" in the direct object slot, within the portion on stilts? Or have I got this wrong? Would some other pictorial representation (within this system of diagramming) better reflect the relationships here? When I think of the phrase "how to ," for whatever reason, I have a hard time thinking of the "how" as an adverb, particularly when the phrase stands on its own. The same goes for the similar construction that begins with "what," again when on its own. In these cases, the "how" and the "what" seem to me in some way to govern the infinitive phrase that follows. I'm thinking of standalone phrases such as — How to survive the big one How to create a restricted list on Facebook What to do in San Francisco What to make of a climate-change plateau Would you say there's something different about these phrases when they're on their own? Or am I being woefully misled by Wrong Thinking? Thanks! Odile To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ========================================================================Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 09:34:28 -0700 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: Odile Sullivan-Tarazi <[log in to unmask]> Subject: The construction "of how . . ." Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1085) Related to my question on construing "how to" and "what to," there's this: if "how" is always an adverb, how can it function as the first word in a phrase governed by a preposition? I think this is what first got me started on the whole issue. The construction that begins "of how" is not uncommon — The inside story of how the war on terror turned into a war on American ideals In search of how people change The science of how names shape us The science of how applause spreads in an audience The secrets of how to retire happy The art of how to train your dragon The basics of how to read a film What follows a preposition functions as the object of that preposition. Is the "how" functioning as an adverb within this noun phrase object? Or is it contributing more directly to the character of this phrase as nominal? Somehow, I'm not seeing a clear path through this one. I am instead wandering the alleyways of uncertainty and muddled thinking. Odile To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ========================================================================Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 20:09:06 +0000 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "=". Rest of header flushed. From: "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: The construction "of how . . ." In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Odile, I'm not comfortable talking about how to deal with these in Reed/Kellog diagrams, but I may be able to suggest a path. quite often, these are referred to as "wh" pronouns, since most start with wh--who, what, where, when ,why. They float to the head of the structure they are a part of (usually a noun clause or content clause, though you give infinitive clause examples.) This is similar to the way they work in what are often called "wh" questions (as opposed to yes/no questions.) Who did it? What did she do? when did she do it? How did she do it? why did she do it? I know who did it. I know what she did. I wonder how she did it. I understand why she did it, As a pronoun, it would take on the grammatical role of what it replaces in the clause. "How" would have an adverb role.. ( of course, that means you have a view of pronoun that is wide enough to include standing in for something other than a noun phrase.) The reason this can follow "of" is because noun clauses (content clauses) can act as object of a preposition. "I wrote a book about how to make money in the stock market." "I based my decision on what she told me." The noun clause structure allows whatever is thematically emphasized to float to the head of the clause. This would be true even if the clause were subject of the sentence. "How she did it still baffles us." "Why she did it is anybody's guess." Craig ________________________________________ From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Odile Sullivan-Tarazi [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 12:34 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: The construction "of how . . ." Related to my question on construing "how to" and "what to," there's this: if "how" is always an adverb, how can it function as the first word in a phrase governed by a preposition? I think this is what first got me started on the whole issue. The construction that begins "of how" is not uncommon — The inside story of how the war on terror turned into a war on American ideals In search of how people change The science of how names shape us The science of how applause spreads in an audience The secrets of how to retire happy The art of how to train your dragon The basics of how to read a film What follows a preposition functions as the object of that preposition. Is the "how" functioning as an adverb within this noun phrase object? Or is it contributing more directly to the character of this phrase as nominal? Somehow, I'm not seeing a clear path through this one. I am instead wandering the alleyways of uncertainty and muddled thinking. Odile To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ========================================================================Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 06:49:00 -0700 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Construing "how to" and "what to" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 T2RpbGUsDQoNCkluIGEgcHJldmlvdXMgcG9zdCBJIGxpc3RlZCB0aGUgMjcgY29ubmVjdGl2ZXMg 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dGUgYXQgaHR0cDovL2F0ZWcub3JnLw0KDQoNCg=========================================================================Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 20:37:42 -0400 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: William Hillaker <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Construing "how to" and "what to" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Odile, This kind of question is one that I make my students solve when they answer questions--to know what sort of question is being asked. _How_ is one of those terms that has two different kinds of adverbial answers that need to be discerned. _What_ is nominal. From your standalones below: The way to survive the big one, but is this a fashion or is it a process? The way to create, obviously reads like a process--or step-by-step. To do Something in SanFran. To make Something of the climate-change plateau. In these cases, the slots are easy to follow/use. Does using the RK diagram help you with exposition of the texts for your students? The stilts are effective in RK to set apart each structure, but what function does it have in the rest of the sentence? Your original question did not read like you were trying to have each statement as a question, e.g.,: You will learn + stilts + the way (_HOW_) to do something; or You will learn + stilts + To do Something (_WHAT_). I also ask my students to try not to use _DO_ if they can help it. I call Do a proVERB. In any case, perhaps trying to have a little more precision with the _DO_ will help you have an easier time with the adverbial slot for _HOW_. Grace and Peace, William R. D. Hillaker, M.Div, M.A The Southwestern Classical Academy An International Baccalaureate World School [log in to unmask] "* the things about which men are agreed are apt to be the things that are least worth holding; the really important things are the things about which men will fight." -J. Gresham Machen >>> Odile Sullivan-Tarazi 06/26/13 12:13 PM >>> In a sentence such as "you will learn how to " or "you will learn what to ," how would you construe and diagram those cores? (I mean, in terms of Reed-Kellogg diagrams.) Would the infinitive phrases be up on stilts in the direct object position? With "how" in the adverbial slot, "what" in the direct object slot, within the portion on stilts? Or have I got this wrong? Would some other pictorial representation (within this system of diagramming) better reflect the relationships here? When I think of the phrase "how to ," for whatever reason, I have a hard time thinking of the "how" as an adverb, particularly when the phrase stands on its own. The same goes for the similar construction that begins with "what," again when on its own. In these cases, the "how" and the "what" seem to me in some way to govern the infinitive phrase that follows. I'm thinking of standalone phrases such as * How to survive the big one How to create a restricted list on Facebook What to do in San Francisco What to make of a climate-change plateau Would you say there's something different about these phrases when they're on their own? Or am I being woefully misled by Wrong Thinking? Thanks! Odile To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ *********************************************************************************************************************************************************** STATEMENT OF CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information regarding the Flint Community Schools or students of the Flint Community School system. This e-mail and any attached files are intended only for the use of the person/s or entity to which it is addressed and should be considered confidential. If this e-mail was sent to you in error, please immediately notify the sender via the e-mail address shown and delete this message from your mail system. *********************************************************************************************************************************************************** To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ========================================================================Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:00:08 +0000 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: GERALD W WALTON <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: The construction "of how . . ." In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C642FBD01D03174BB0A080F49990843A15A7B930exchange1adolem_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C642FBD01D03174BB0A080F49990843A15A7B930exchange1adolem_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable . To chave no problem in using Reed-Kellogg diagrams if their use serves as a means to an end. I don't know about the need for terms for the words that introduce noun clauses or infinitive phrases. I always stress function when analyzing a sentence. We all know infinitive phrases and noun clauses can be introduced by words functioning as adverbs, adjectives, or pronouns: such words as "where," "when," "how," "which," "what," and "whom." Diagrams actually help me in such situations. The inside story of how the war on terror turned into a war on American ideals-- "The inside story" is a noun with modifiers, "the," "inside," and a prepositional phrase used as an adjectival modifier (introduced by) "how." The object of the preposition "of" is the noun clause "the war on terror turned into a war on American ideals how," "how" introducing the clause and serving as an adverbial modifier of "turned" or probably of a kind of verb+ combination "turned into." Of course the reader has in mind the fact that "how" is a kind of substitute for something like "in what way" or "in what manner." In search of how people change--- Pretty much the same, prepositional phrase modifying "search," introduced by adverb "how," modifying "change" in the noun clause. "People change how." The science of how names shape us-- Same The science of how applause spreads in an audience--Same The secrets of how to retire happy-Very similar, except that now "how" introduces an infinitive phrase. An infinitive as a kind of hybrid retains some of its verb features (can be modified by the verb "how" for example) and can also serve as an adjective, an adverb, or a noun. Here the infinitive phrase is used as a noun as an object of a preposition, the entire prepositional phrase modifying "secrets." The art of how to train your dragon-Same. To tame your dragon how, "how" modifying, introducing, "to train" The basics of how to read a film-Exactly same I am well aware that I have added nothing new; I have just used, or not used, somewhat different terminology. gww To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_000_C642FBD01D03174BB0A080F49990843A15A7B930exchange1adolem_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_000_C642FBD01D03174BB0A080F49990843A15A7B930exchange1adolem_-- ========================================================================Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 19:25:00 +0000 Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> Sender: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> From: GERALD W WALTON <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: The construction "of how . . ." In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C642FBD01D03174BB0A080F49990843A15A7BABCexchange1adolem_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_C642FBD01D03174BB0A080F49990843A15A7BABCexchange1adolem_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable . To chave was supposed to have been I have Gww To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_000_C642FBD01D03174BB0A080F49990843A15A7BABCexchange1adolem_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ --_000_C642FBD01D03174BB0A080F49990843A15A7BABCexchange1adolem_--