I’m not sure that it’s really a matter of possessives with gerunds getting rare as that both forms have been in mixed use for a long time. I recommend the entry in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English Usage, which gives an extensive history of both the construction itself and the voluminous commentary on the matter. It might also be worth looking at what the Cambridge Grammar of English has to say about the distinction between gerunds and participles.

I do teach the possessive in front of the gerund-participle, but as a possibility, not as a requirement. I see it as primarily a mater of intended focus. Are we stressing the action (if so, use the possessive) or the object (if so, use the plain case)? In this instance, I find the plain form of “Democrats” preferable, as that’s where I would put the focus. In other words, I read “undermining…” as a participial modifier of “Democrats” rather than as the head word in the object of the preposition.

Karl

On Feb 26, 2014, at 10:48 AM, Michael Kischner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Sorry about my sending troubles.  This should be readable.
> 
> From The Economist (Feb. 22):  "Indeed, the idea that [trade deals] will not do much to help the economy is one excuse for Democrats undermining their president."  I would have written "for Democrats' undermining their president," but the possessive before gerunds seems to be getting rare in both speech and writing.  I hear a lot of "That's no excuse for them speaking rudely."  So in parsing such sentences, do we consider the -ing words to be participles modifying the preceding noun?  How many teachers out there still try to teach that gerunds are preceded by possessives?  Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Michael Kischner
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