Elly van Gelderen claims in A History of the English Language on p. 25 (15) that "Ic gyrnde" means "I desired" "I wanted" but I cannot locate the stem verb for "gyrnde" in any AS dictionary. I figured this list might have some AS experts. Scott Catledge ---- ATEG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > There are 3 messages totalling 633 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. -ish as grammatical morpheme (2) > 2. "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 08:26:18 -0400 > From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Susan_Behrens?= <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: -ish as grammatical morpheme > > A recent article in American Speech discusses the suffix -ish as lexicali= > > zing,=20 > i.e., changing from a grammatical marker to separate word status. For exa= > > mple,=20 > "I am ish about the upcoming meeting." > > My question: isn't -ish a derivational marker and not inflectional/gramma= > > r=20 > functioning? OR are there two kinds: -ish that derives a new word (child = > > vs.=20 > childish) and -ish that acts as a type of adjective marker of degree (hun= > > gry=20 > vs. hungryish).=20 > > Thanks, Sue Behrens > Marymount Manhattan College > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 07:40:20 -0700 > From: Gregg Heacock <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? > > --Apple-Mail-1--394024945 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset=us-ascii > > Bruce, > > I am totally amazed by what you have put together! Though I have seen = > your name appear many times as you have responded to questions posed by = > others, I had no idea that you would be such a resource as this. One = > has to marvel at the variety of constructions available to us and wonder = > that people unschooled in the nuances you have delineated are able to = > absorb their meaning as though they were practiced in their use. Though = > syntax may be ex post facto, it allows teachers to enable students to = > move from an unconscious understanding of the language to a conscious = > use of variant productive forms. While grammarians have been accused by = > whole-language advocates of drill-and-kill instruction, the models, = > Bruce, that you have laid out allow us to engage students in = > drill-and-instill instruction. It is through embedding such forms in = > our mind through the muscular system replicating these patterns and = > applying them to new situations that we might expand our students' = > verbal horizons. > > Patrick Finn, author of Literacy with an Attitude, has observed that = > education tends to reinforce a class system, disempowering outsiders, = > encouraging the upwardly mobile to follow the rules, allowing many of = > the upper-middle-class to play with creative expression, and training = > the upper-class to manipulate words in order to manipulate people. We = > need a new pedagogy that engages all students in the use of what Joan = > Bybee calls productive phrases so that they learn the art of = > manipulating words to craft sentences that fire the wires in readers' = > brains. > > Dallin D. Oaks, in Structural Ambiguity in English, draws examples from = > a whole generation of comedians who played grammatical jokes on = > listeners as a way of bringing them into the fold. George Burns asks = > Gracie Allen, "Where did you get those flowers?" Gracie replied, "You = > said that if I went to visit Clara Bagley in the hospital, I should take = > her flowers. So, when she wasn't looking, I did." > > Dallin teaches students how to play with the expectations created by = > syntactical structures to surprise readers and hold their attention. = > So, even if syntax is ex post facto, it helps students see how the = > language operates and can be used to elevate their writing. This is how = > language supports and strengthens a culture. > > Bruce, you have me pushing the button for the "next page" of your = > framework. It is a wonderful gift to have shared with your colleagues. > > Gregg > > > > On Jul 12, 2014, at 7:09 AM, Bruce Despain wrote: > > > ATEGers, > >=20 > > The formal description of English Grammar that I have been working on = > includes these various modal periphrases in the chapter on verb = > constructions with the section beginning on page 500 (bdespain.org under = > studies, An Analytical Grammar of English). The framework is = > mathematically and logically rigorous so may not be pedigogically useful = > till the system is understood, but at least the constructions are in one = > place. I think the serious student should ought to take a look. =20 > >=20 > > Bruce Despain > >=20 > > --- [log in to unmask] wrote: > >=20 > > From: "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]> > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? > > Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 16:14:55 +0000 > >=20 > > Glenda, > >=20 > > "Fixin' to" is also quite popular here, too. > >=20 > > I teach a unit on Appalachian English in my grammar class when I teach = > it here at Eastern Kentucky University, where I am retired but still = > teaching part-time. > >=20 > > As I best remember, you're in Alabama. Correct? > >=20 > > Check me out at Amazon.com, the book section.=20 > >=20 > > I'm at [log in to unmask] > >=20 > > I was formerly the Book Review Editor for the ATEG Journal. > >=20 > > Best Wishes, > >=20 > > Marshall > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar = > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Conway, Glenda > > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 9:36 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? > >=20 > > Hi Marshall! > >=20 > > Where I live, the wording is "I'm fixin' to. We like to take our own = > good time when doing so won't cause a disaster. > >=20 > > Are you retired? Where are you living? > >=20 > > It's so good to hear you here. > >=20 > >=20 > > Glenda > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Glenda Conway > >=20 > > Professor, English > >=20 > > Coordinator, Harbert Writing Center > >=20 > > Department of English and Foreign Languages > >=20 > > University of Montevallo > >=20 > > Montevallo, AL 35115 > >=20 > > 205 665 6425 office > >=20 > > 205 482 4380 cell > >=20 > > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > ________________________________ > > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar = > [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall = > [[log in to unmask]] > > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 8:20 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? > >=20 > > Glenda, > >=20 > > Old classmate here! > >=20 > > "Going to" is many times regarded as a two-word modal auxiliary like = > the related "can," may," might" and others. > >=20 > > "I'm going to go" > > "I may go." > >=20 > > Marshall Myers > > Professor Emeritus > > Eastern Kentucky University > > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar = > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael > > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 8:05 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? > >=20 > > Glenda > >=20 > > This is the first message I have received from ATEG. I was not sure it = > was an active list. > >=20 > > I have a couple of brief observations: > >=20 > > 1. You could interpret the structure either way, but you also need to = > explain to students the pragmatic meaning of the grammar in addition to = > labeling it with a pedagogical grammar structure. > >=20 > > 2. One pragmatic meaning of "gonna" is to have an intention and = > subsequently a plan to do something. Intentions entail plans. > >=20 > > 3. You might also mention the informal spoken linguistic register of = > the poem. > >=20 > > 4. I was just reading yesterday about the progressive tense in the = > British National Corpus which found that overwhelming percentage of its = > use (65%) was what the author described as "repeatedness" or in other = > words, "an ongoing single event." An example of repeatedness from the = > corpus in the article was "You are once again doing it completely and = > utterly wrong." The source for this is a book chapter: > >=20 > > Romer, U. (2010). Using general and specialized corpora in English = > language teaching: Past, present, and future. In M. Compoy-Cubillo, B. = > Belles-Fortuno, and M. Gea-Valor. (Eds.), Corpus-based approaches to = > English language teaching (pp. 18-35). London: Continuum. > >=20 > > Romer conducted a large study of progressive in a 2005 book, = > Progressives, patterns, pedagogy: A corpus-driven approach to = > progressive forms, functions, contexts, and dialectics. > >=20 > > I do not think repeatedness is the pragmatic function of the line, but = > teaching students about using corpus studies, and pragmatics to inform = > our knowledge of grammar is certainly worth the time. > >=20 > > Mike Busch > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Greetings- > >=20 > > Today, in my Advanced English Grammar class, I showed Langston = > Hughes's "Daybreak in Alabama" as an example of a poem with two = > sentences. > >=20 > > I realized while showing the poem that I was not sure how to divide = > the slots of the first main clause, which is > >=20 > > ...I'm gonna write me some music about > > Daybreak in Alabama.... > >=20 > > Shall I think of "I'm gonna write" as being equivalent to "I will = > write," thus considering "[a]m gonna" as an auxiliary to "write"? > >=20 > > Or shall I think of "I'm gonna write" as being equivalent to "I am = > going to write," thus considering "to write..." an adverbial infinitive = > phrase? > >=20 > > I would love to read some discussion on this clause and to be able to = > share it with my students afterward. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Thanks, > >=20 > > Glenda Conway > > Professor, English > > Coordinator, Harbert Writing Center > > Department of English and Foreign Languages Station 6420 University of = > Montevallo Montevallo, AL 35115 > > 205 665-6425 office > > 206 665-6422 fax > > [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> > >=20 > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select = > "Join or leave the list" > >=20 > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > >=20 > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select = > "Join or leave the list" > >=20 > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > >=20 > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select = > "Join or leave the list" > >=20 > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > >=20 > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > >=20 > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > >=20 > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > >=20 > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > >=20 > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > >=20 > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > --Apple-Mail-1--394024945 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Content-Type: text/html; > charset=us-ascii > > <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = > -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; = > ">Bruce,<div><br></div><div>I am totally amazed by what you have put = > together! Though I have seen your name appear many times as you = > have responded to questions posed by others, I had no idea that you = > would be such a resource as this. One has to marvel at the variety = > of constructions available to us and wonder that people unschooled in = > the nuances you have delineated are able to absorb their meaning as = > though they were practiced in their use. Though syntax may be ex = > post facto, it allows teachers to enable students to move from an = > unconscious understanding of the language to a conscious use of variant = > productive forms. While grammarians have been accused by = > whole-language advocates of drill-and-kill instruction, the models, = > Bruce, that you have laid out allow us to engage students in = > drill-and-instill instruction. It is through embedding such forms = > in our mind through the muscular system replicating these patterns and = > applying them to new situations that we might expand our students' = > verbal horizons.</div><div><br></div><div>Patrick Finn, author of = > <i>Literacy with an Attitude</i>, has observed that education tends to = > reinforce a class system, disempowering outsiders, encouraging the = > upwardly mobile to follow the rules, allowing many of the = > upper-middle-class to play with creative expression, and training the = > upper-class to manipulate words in order to manipulate people. We = > need a new pedagogy that engages all students in the use of what Joan = > Bybee calls productive phrases so that they learn the art of = > manipulating words to craft sentences that fire the wires in readers' = > brains.</div><div><br></div><div>Dallin D. Oaks, in <i>Structural = > Ambiguity in English</i>, draws examples from a whole generation of = > comedians who played grammatical jokes on listeners as a way of bringing = > them into the fold. George Burns asks Gracie Allen, "Where did you = > get those flowers?" Gracie replied, "You said that if I went to = > visit Clara Bagley in the hospital, I should take her flowers. So, = > when she wasn't looking, I did."</div><div><br></div><div>Dallin teaches = > students how to play with the expectations created by syntactical = > structures to surprise readers and hold their attention. So, even = > if syntax is <i>ex post facto</i>, it helps students see how the = > language operates and can be used to elevate their writing. This = > is how language supports and strengthens a = > culture.</div><div><br></div><div>Bruce, you have me pushing the button = > for the "next page" of your framework. It is a wonderful gift to = > have shared with your = > colleagues.</div><div><br></div><div>Gregg</div><div><br></div><div><br></= > div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 12, 2014, at 7:09 AM, Bruce Despain = > wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = > type=3D"cite"><div>ATEGers,<br><br>The formal description of English = > Grammar that I have been working on includes these various modal = > periphrases in the chapter on verb constructions with the section = > beginning on page 500 (<a href=3D"http://bdespain.org">bdespain.org</a> = > under studies, An Analytical Grammar of English). The framework is = > mathematically and logically rigorous so may not be pedigogically useful = > till the system is understood, but at least the constructions are in one = > place. I think the serious student should ought to take a look. = > <br><br>Bruce Despain<br><br>--- <a = > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a> = > wrote:<br><br>From: "Myers, Marshall" <<a = > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>><br>T= > o: <a = > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br= > >Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + = > auxiliary?<br>Date: Sun, = > 6 Jul 2014 16:14:55 +0000<br><br>Glenda,<br><br>"Fixin' to" is also = > quite popular here, too.<br><br>I teach a unit on Appalachian English in = > my grammar class when I teach it here at Eastern Kentucky University, = > where I am retired but still teaching part-time.<br><br>As I best = > remember, you're in Alabama. Correct?<br><br>Check me out at <a = > href=3D"http://Amazon.com">Amazon.com</a>, the book section. <br><br>I'm = > at <a = > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>.<br><br>= > I was formerly the Book Review Editor for the ATEG Journal.<br><br>Best = > Wishes,<br><br>Marshall<br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Assembly = > for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] = > On Behalf Of Conway, Glenda<br>Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 9:36 = > PM<br>To: <a = > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br= > >Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + = > auxiliary?<br><br>Hi Marshall!<br><br>Where I live, the wording is "I'm = > fixin' to. We like to take our own good time when doing so won't cause a = > disaster.<br><br>Are you retired? Where are you living?<br><br>It's so = > good to hear you here.<br><br><br>Glenda<br><br><br><br>Glenda = > Conway<br><br>Professor, English<br><br>Coordinator, Harbert Writing = > Center<br><br>Department of English and Foreign = > Languages<br><br>University of Montevallo<br><br>Montevallo, AL = > 35115<br><br>205 665 6425 office<br><br>205 482 4380 = > cell<br><br>[log in to unmask]<<a = > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>&g= > t;<br><br><br><br><br>________________________________<br>From: Assembly = > for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On = > Behalf Of Myers, Marshall [[log in to unmask]]<br>Sent: Friday, July = > 04, 2014 8:20 PM<br>To: <a = > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br= > >Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + = > auxiliary?<br><br>Glenda,<br><br>Old classmate here!<br><br>"Going to" = > is many times regarded as a two-word modal auxiliary like the related = > "can," may," might" and others.<br><br>"I'm going to go"<br>"I may = > go."<br><br>Marshall Myers<br>Professor Emeritus<br>Eastern Kentucky = > University<br>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar = > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael<br>Sent: = > Wednesday, July 02, 2014 8:05 PM<br>To: <a = > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br= > >Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + = > auxiliary?<br><br>Glenda<br><br>This is the first message I have = > received from ATEG. I was not sure it was an active list.<br><br>I have = > a couple of brief observations:<br><br>1. You could interpret the = > structure either way, but you also need to explain to students the = > pragmatic meaning of the grammar in addition to labeling it with a = > pedagogical grammar structure.<br><br>2. One pragmatic meaning of = > "gonna" is to have an intention and subsequently a plan to do something. = > Intentions entail plans.<br><br>3. You might also mention the informal = > spoken linguistic register of the poem.<br><br>4. I was just reading = > yesterday about the progressive tense in the British National Corpus = > which found that overwhelming percentage of its use (65%) was what the = > author described as "repeatedness" or in other words, "an ongoing single = > event." An example of repeatedness from the corpus in the article was = > "You are once again doing it completely and utterly wrong." The source = > for this is a book chapter:<br><br>Romer, U. (2010). Using general and = > specialized corpora in English language teaching: Past, present, and = > future. In M. Compoy-Cubillo, B. Belles-Fortuno, and M. Gea-Valor. = > (Eds.), Corpus-based approaches to English language teaching (pp. = > 18-35). London: Continuum.<br><br>Romer conducted a large study of = > progressive in a 2005 book, Progressives, patterns, pedagogy: A = > corpus-driven approach to progressive forms, functions, contexts, and = > dialectics.<br><br>I do not think repeatedness is the pragmatic function = > of the line, but teaching students about using corpus studies, and = > pragmatics to inform our knowledge of grammar is certainly worth the = > time.<br><br>Mike Busch<br><br><br><br><br><br>Greetings-<br><br>Today, = > in my Advanced English Grammar class, I showed Langston Hughes's = > "Daybreak in Alabama" as an example of a poem with two = > sentences.<br><br>I realized while showing the poem that I was not sure = > how to divide the slots of the first main clause, which is<br><br>...I'm = > gonna write me some music about<br>Daybreak in Alabama....<br><br>Shall = > I think of "I'm gonna write" as being equivalent to "I will write," thus = > considering "[a]m gonna" as an auxiliary to "write"?<br><br>Or shall I = > think of "I'm gonna write" as being equivalent to "I am going to write," = > thus considering "to write..." an adverbial infinitive phrase?<br><br>I = > would love to read some discussion on this clause and to be able to = > share it with my students = > afterward.<br><br><br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Glenda Conway<br>Professor, = > English<br>Coordinator, Harbert Writing Center<br>Department of English = > and Foreign Languages Station 6420 University of Montevallo Montevallo, = > AL 35115<br>205 665-6425 office<br>206 665-6422 = > fax<br>[log in to unmask]<<a = > href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>&g= > t;<br><br>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's = > web interface at: <a = > href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= > hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the = > list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = > href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = > this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <a = > href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= > hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the = > list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = > href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = > this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <a = > href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= > hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the = > list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = > href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = > this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<br> = > <a = > href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= > hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br>and select "Join or leave the = > list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = > href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = > this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<br> = > <a = > href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= > hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br>and select "Join or leave the = > list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = > href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = > this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<br> = > <a = > href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= > hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br>and select "Join or leave the = > list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = > href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br></div></blockquote></div= > ><br></div></body></html>= > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > <p> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > --Apple-Mail-1--394024945-- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 13:13:03 -0400 > From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: Re: -ish as grammatical morpheme > > --20cf30427066911e1704fe1649f0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Gretchen McCulloch has a blog on ish > <http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2014/06/09/ish_how_a_suffix_became_an_independent_word_even_though_it_s_not_in_all.html> > on Slate.com. There is also seems a completely unrelated slang term ish > used as a euphemism for shit > <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ish>. > > Sue poses very interesting questions. Are there are two kinds of -ish, a > noun suffix meaning -like which is derivational and fixed (childish, > mannish, foolish) and another meaning "more or less" which can be used > productively with adjectives (tallish, yellowish, temperamentalish) but > also with times (sixish, noonish) and even nouns. Childish can be > ambiguous: childish behavior, but also "Is he a child?" "He looks to be > around 15, so child-ish." The latter would accent the second syllable. > > Dick Veit > > > On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Susan Behrens <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > A recent article in American Speech discusses the suffix -ish as > > lexicalizing, > > i.e., changing from a grammatical marker to separate word status. For > > example, > > "I am ish about the upcoming meeting." > > > > My question: isn't -ish a derivational marker and not inflectional/grammar > > functioning? OR are there two kinds: -ish that derives a new word (child > > vs. > > childish) and -ish that acts as a type of adjective marker of degree > > (hungry > > vs. hungryish). > > > > Thanks, Sue Behrens > > Marymount Manhattan College > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > > at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > --20cf30427066911e1704fe1649f0 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > <div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Gretchen McCulloch has a <a href=3D"http://www.s= > late.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2014/06/09/ish_how_a_suffix_became_an_indepen= > dent_word_even_though_it_s_not_in_all.html">blog on ish</a> on Slate.com. T= > here is also seems a completely unrelated <a href=3D"http://www.urbandictio= > nary.com/define.php?term=3Dish">slang term ish used as a euphemism for shit= > </a>.<br> > <br></div>Sue poses very interesting questions. Are there are two kinds of = > -ish, a noun suffix meaning -like which is derivational and fixed (childish= > , mannish, foolish) and another meaning "more or less" which can = > be used productively with adjectives (tallish, yellowish, temperamentalish)= > but also with times (sixish, noonish) and even nouns. Childish can be ambi= > guous: childish behavior, but also "Is he a child?" "He look= > s to be around 15, so child-ish." The latter would accent the second s= > yllable.<br> > </div><div><br></div>Dick Veit<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br>= > <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Susan Behrens <= > span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">= > [log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br> > <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= > x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">A recent article in American Speech discusse= > s the suffix -ish as lexicalizing,<br> > i.e., changing from a grammatical marker to separate word status. For examp= > le,<br> > "I am ish about the upcoming meeting."<br> > <br> > My question: isn't -ish a derivational marker and not inflectional/gram= > mar<br> > functioning? OR are there two kinds: -ish that derives a new word (child vs= > .<br> > childish) and -ish that acts as a type of adjective marker of degree (hungr= > y<br> > vs. hungryish).<br> > <br> > Thanks, Sue Behrens<br> > Marymount Manhattan College<br> > <br> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf= > ace at:<br> > =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htm= > l" target=3D"_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br> > and select "Join or leave the list"<br> > <br> > Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"= > >http://ateg.org/</a><br> > </blockquote></div><br></div> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > <p> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > --20cf30427066911e1704fe1649f0-- > > ------------------------------ > > End of ATEG Digest - 12 Jul 2014 to 13 Jul 2014 (#2014-29) > ********************************************************** To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/