You’ll find the main spelling variants as geornan or giernan. NB that this is the ancestor of “yearn.” On Aug 14, 2014, at 4:19 PM, Scott Catledge <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Elly van Gelderen claims in A History of the English Language on p. 25 (15) that "Ic gyrnde" means "I desired" "I wanted" but I cannot locate the stem verb for "gyrnde" in any AS dictionary. I figured this list might have some AS experts. > Scott Catledge > ---- ATEG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> There are 3 messages totalling 633 lines in this issue. >> >> Topics of the day: >> >> 1. -ish as grammatical morpheme (2) >> 2. "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 08:26:18 -0400 >> From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Susan_Behrens?= <[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: -ish as grammatical morpheme >> >> A recent article in American Speech discusses the suffix -ish as lexicali= >> >> zing,=20 >> i.e., changing from a grammatical marker to separate word status. For exa= >> >> mple,=20 >> "I am ish about the upcoming meeting." >> >> My question: isn't -ish a derivational marker and not inflectional/gramma= >> >> r=20 >> functioning? OR are there two kinds: -ish that derives a new word (child = >> >> vs.=20 >> childish) and -ish that acts as a type of adjective marker of degree (hun= >> >> gry=20 >> vs. hungryish).=20 >> >> Thanks, Sue Behrens >> Marymount Manhattan College >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 07:40:20 -0700 >> From: Gregg Heacock <[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? >> >> --Apple-Mail-1--394024945 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset=us-ascii >> >> Bruce, >> >> I am totally amazed by what you have put together! Though I have seen = >> your name appear many times as you have responded to questions posed by = >> others, I had no idea that you would be such a resource as this. One = >> has to marvel at the variety of constructions available to us and wonder = >> that people unschooled in the nuances you have delineated are able to = >> absorb their meaning as though they were practiced in their use. Though = >> syntax may be ex post facto, it allows teachers to enable students to = >> move from an unconscious understanding of the language to a conscious = >> use of variant productive forms. While grammarians have been accused by = >> whole-language advocates of drill-and-kill instruction, the models, = >> Bruce, that you have laid out allow us to engage students in = >> drill-and-instill instruction. It is through embedding such forms in = >> our mind through the muscular system replicating these patterns and = >> applying them to new situations that we might expand our students' = >> verbal horizons. >> >> Patrick Finn, author of Literacy with an Attitude, has observed that = >> education tends to reinforce a class system, disempowering outsiders, = >> encouraging the upwardly mobile to follow the rules, allowing many of = >> the upper-middle-class to play with creative expression, and training = >> the upper-class to manipulate words in order to manipulate people. We = >> need a new pedagogy that engages all students in the use of what Joan = >> Bybee calls productive phrases so that they learn the art of = >> manipulating words to craft sentences that fire the wires in readers' = >> brains. >> >> Dallin D. Oaks, in Structural Ambiguity in English, draws examples from = >> a whole generation of comedians who played grammatical jokes on = >> listeners as a way of bringing them into the fold. George Burns asks = >> Gracie Allen, "Where did you get those flowers?" Gracie replied, "You = >> said that if I went to visit Clara Bagley in the hospital, I should take = >> her flowers. So, when she wasn't looking, I did." >> >> Dallin teaches students how to play with the expectations created by = >> syntactical structures to surprise readers and hold their attention. = >> So, even if syntax is ex post facto, it helps students see how the = >> language operates and can be used to elevate their writing. This is how = >> language supports and strengthens a culture. >> >> Bruce, you have me pushing the button for the "next page" of your = >> framework. It is a wonderful gift to have shared with your colleagues. >> >> Gregg >> >> >> >> On Jul 12, 2014, at 7:09 AM, Bruce Despain wrote: >> >>> ATEGers, >>> =20 >>> The formal description of English Grammar that I have been working on = >> includes these various modal periphrases in the chapter on verb = >> constructions with the section beginning on page 500 (bdespain.org under = >> studies, An Analytical Grammar of English). The framework is = >> mathematically and logically rigorous so may not be pedigogically useful = >> till the system is understood, but at least the constructions are in one = >> place. I think the serious student should ought to take a look. =20 >>> =20 >>> Bruce Despain >>> =20 >>> --- [log in to unmask] wrote: >>> =20 >>> From: "Myers, Marshall" <[log in to unmask]> >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? >>> Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2014 16:14:55 +0000 >>> =20 >>> Glenda, >>> =20 >>> "Fixin' to" is also quite popular here, too. >>> =20 >>> I teach a unit on Appalachian English in my grammar class when I teach = >> it here at Eastern Kentucky University, where I am retired but still = >> teaching part-time. >>> =20 >>> As I best remember, you're in Alabama. Correct? >>> =20 >>> Check me out at Amazon.com, the book section.=20 >>> =20 >>> I'm at [log in to unmask] >>> =20 >>> I was formerly the Book Review Editor for the ATEG Journal. >>> =20 >>> Best Wishes, >>> =20 >>> Marshall >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar = >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Conway, Glenda >>> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 9:36 PM >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? >>> =20 >>> Hi Marshall! >>> =20 >>> Where I live, the wording is "I'm fixin' to. We like to take our own = >> good time when doing so won't cause a disaster. >>> =20 >>> Are you retired? Where are you living? >>> =20 >>> It's so good to hear you here. >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Glenda >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Glenda Conway >>> =20 >>> Professor, English >>> =20 >>> Coordinator, Harbert Writing Center >>> =20 >>> Department of English and Foreign Languages >>> =20 >>> University of Montevallo >>> =20 >>> Montevallo, AL 35115 >>> =20 >>> 205 665 6425 office >>> =20 >>> 205 482 4380 cell >>> =20 >>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> ________________________________ >>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar = >> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall = >> [[log in to unmask]] >>> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 8:20 PM >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? >>> =20 >>> Glenda, >>> =20 >>> Old classmate here! >>> =20 >>> "Going to" is many times regarded as a two-word modal auxiliary like = >> the related "can," may," might" and others. >>> =20 >>> "I'm going to go" >>> "I may go." >>> =20 >>> Marshall Myers >>> Professor Emeritus >>> Eastern Kentucky University >>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar = >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 8:05 PM >>> To: [log in to unmask] >>> Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + auxiliary? >>> =20 >>> Glenda >>> =20 >>> This is the first message I have received from ATEG. I was not sure it = >> was an active list. >>> =20 >>> I have a couple of brief observations: >>> =20 >>> 1. You could interpret the structure either way, but you also need to = >> explain to students the pragmatic meaning of the grammar in addition to = >> labeling it with a pedagogical grammar structure. >>> =20 >>> 2. One pragmatic meaning of "gonna" is to have an intention and = >> subsequently a plan to do something. Intentions entail plans. >>> =20 >>> 3. You might also mention the informal spoken linguistic register of = >> the poem. >>> =20 >>> 4. I was just reading yesterday about the progressive tense in the = >> British National Corpus which found that overwhelming percentage of its = >> use (65%) was what the author described as "repeatedness" or in other = >> words, "an ongoing single event." An example of repeatedness from the = >> corpus in the article was "You are once again doing it completely and = >> utterly wrong." The source for this is a book chapter: >>> =20 >>> Romer, U. (2010). Using general and specialized corpora in English = >> language teaching: Past, present, and future. In M. Compoy-Cubillo, B. = >> Belles-Fortuno, and M. Gea-Valor. (Eds.), Corpus-based approaches to = >> English language teaching (pp. 18-35). London: Continuum. >>> =20 >>> Romer conducted a large study of progressive in a 2005 book, = >> Progressives, patterns, pedagogy: A corpus-driven approach to = >> progressive forms, functions, contexts, and dialectics. >>> =20 >>> I do not think repeatedness is the pragmatic function of the line, but = >> teaching students about using corpus studies, and pragmatics to inform = >> our knowledge of grammar is certainly worth the time. >>> =20 >>> Mike Busch >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Greetings- >>> =20 >>> Today, in my Advanced English Grammar class, I showed Langston = >> Hughes's "Daybreak in Alabama" as an example of a poem with two = >> sentences. >>> =20 >>> I realized while showing the poem that I was not sure how to divide = >> the slots of the first main clause, which is >>> =20 >>> ...I'm gonna write me some music about >>> Daybreak in Alabama.... >>> =20 >>> Shall I think of "I'm gonna write" as being equivalent to "I will = >> write," thus considering "[a]m gonna" as an auxiliary to "write"? >>> =20 >>> Or shall I think of "I'm gonna write" as being equivalent to "I am = >> going to write," thus considering "to write..." an adverbial infinitive = >> phrase? >>> =20 >>> I would love to read some discussion on this clause and to be able to = >> share it with my students afterward. >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> =20 >>> Thanks, >>> =20 >>> Glenda Conway >>> Professor, English >>> Coordinator, Harbert Writing Center >>> Department of English and Foreign Languages Station 6420 University of = >> Montevallo Montevallo, AL 35115 >>> 205 665-6425 office >>> 206 665-6422 fax >>> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> >>> =20 >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = >> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select = >> "Join or leave the list" >>> =20 >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >>> =20 >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = >> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select = >> "Join or leave the list" >>> =20 >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >>> =20 >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = >> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select = >> "Join or leave the list" >>> =20 >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >>> =20 >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = >> interface at: >>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>> and select "Join or leave the list" >>> =20 >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >>> =20 >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = >> interface at: >>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>> and select "Join or leave the list" >>> =20 >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >>> =20 >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = >> interface at: >>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>> and select "Join or leave the list" >>> =20 >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> --Apple-Mail-1--394024945 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> Content-Type: text/html; >> charset=us-ascii >> >> <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = >> -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; = >> ">Bruce,<div><br></div><div>I am totally amazed by what you have put = >> together! Though I have seen your name appear many times as you = >> have responded to questions posed by others, I had no idea that you = >> would be such a resource as this. One has to marvel at the variety = >> of constructions available to us and wonder that people unschooled in = >> the nuances you have delineated are able to absorb their meaning as = >> though they were practiced in their use. Though syntax may be ex = >> post facto, it allows teachers to enable students to move from an = >> unconscious understanding of the language to a conscious use of variant = >> productive forms. While grammarians have been accused by = >> whole-language advocates of drill-and-kill instruction, the models, = >> Bruce, that you have laid out allow us to engage students in = >> drill-and-instill instruction. It is through embedding such forms = >> in our mind through the muscular system replicating these patterns and = >> applying them to new situations that we might expand our students' = >> verbal horizons.</div><div><br></div><div>Patrick Finn, author of = >> <i>Literacy with an Attitude</i>, has observed that education tends to = >> reinforce a class system, disempowering outsiders, encouraging the = >> upwardly mobile to follow the rules, allowing many of the = >> upper-middle-class to play with creative expression, and training the = >> upper-class to manipulate words in order to manipulate people. We = >> need a new pedagogy that engages all students in the use of what Joan = >> Bybee calls productive phrases so that they learn the art of = >> manipulating words to craft sentences that fire the wires in readers' = >> brains.</div><div><br></div><div>Dallin D. Oaks, in <i>Structural = >> Ambiguity in English</i>, draws examples from a whole generation of = >> comedians who played grammatical jokes on listeners as a way of bringing = >> them into the fold. George Burns asks Gracie Allen, "Where did you = >> get those flowers?" Gracie replied, "You said that if I went to = >> visit Clara Bagley in the hospital, I should take her flowers. So, = >> when she wasn't looking, I did."</div><div><br></div><div>Dallin teaches = >> students how to play with the expectations created by syntactical = >> structures to surprise readers and hold their attention. So, even = >> if syntax is <i>ex post facto</i>, it helps students see how the = >> language operates and can be used to elevate their writing. This = >> is how language supports and strengthens a = >> culture.</div><div><br></div><div>Bruce, you have me pushing the button = >> for the "next page" of your framework. It is a wonderful gift to = >> have shared with your = >> colleagues.</div><div><br></div><div>Gregg</div><div><br></div><div><br></= >> div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 12, 2014, at 7:09 AM, Bruce Despain = >> wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = >> type=3D"cite"><div>ATEGers,<br><br>The formal description of English = >> Grammar that I have been working on includes these various modal = >> periphrases in the chapter on verb constructions with the section = >> beginning on page 500 (<a href=3D"http://bdespain.org">bdespain.org</a> = >> under studies, An Analytical Grammar of English). The framework is = >> mathematically and logically rigorous so may not be pedigogically useful = >> till the system is understood, but at least the constructions are in one = >> place. I think the serious student should ought to take a look. = >> <br><br>Bruce Despain<br><br>--- <a = >> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a> = >> wrote:<br><br>From: "Myers, Marshall" <<a = >> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>><br>T= >> o: <a = >> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br= >>> Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + = >> auxiliary?<br>Date: Sun, = >> 6 Jul 2014 16:14:55 +0000<br><br>Glenda,<br><br>"Fixin' to" is also = >> quite popular here, too.<br><br>I teach a unit on Appalachian English in = >> my grammar class when I teach it here at Eastern Kentucky University, = >> where I am retired but still teaching part-time.<br><br>As I best = >> remember, you're in Alabama. Correct?<br><br>Check me out at <a = >> href=3D"http://Amazon.com">Amazon.com</a>, the book section. <br><br>I'm = >> at <a = >> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>.<br><br>= >> I was formerly the Book Review Editor for the ATEG Journal.<br><br>Best = >> Wishes,<br><br>Marshall<br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Assembly = >> for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] = >> On Behalf Of Conway, Glenda<br>Sent: Friday, July 04, 2014 9:36 = >> PM<br>To: <a = >> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br= >>> Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + = >> auxiliary?<br><br>Hi Marshall!<br><br>Where I live, the wording is "I'm = >> fixin' to. We like to take our own good time when doing so won't cause a = >> disaster.<br><br>Are you retired? Where are you living?<br><br>It's so = >> good to hear you here.<br><br><br>Glenda<br><br><br><br>Glenda = >> Conway<br><br>Professor, English<br><br>Coordinator, Harbert Writing = >> Center<br><br>Department of English and Foreign = >> Languages<br><br>University of Montevallo<br><br>Montevallo, AL = >> 35115<br><br>205 665 6425 office<br><br>205 482 4380 = >> cell<br><br>[log in to unmask]<<a = >> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>&g= >> t;<br><br><br><br><br>________________________________<br>From: Assembly = >> for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]] On = >> Behalf Of Myers, Marshall [[log in to unmask]]<br>Sent: Friday, July = >> 04, 2014 8:20 PM<br>To: <a = >> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br= >>> Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + = >> auxiliary?<br><br>Glenda,<br><br>Old classmate here!<br><br>"Going to" = >> is many times regarded as a two-word modal auxiliary like the related = >> "can," may," might" and others.<br><br>"I'm going to go"<br>"I may = >> go."<br><br>Marshall Myers<br>Professor Emeritus<br>Eastern Kentucky = >> University<br>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar = >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael<br>Sent: = >> Wednesday, July 02, 2014 8:05 PM<br>To: <a = >> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a><br= >>> Subject: Re: "I'm gonna write"--verb + infinitive or verb + = >> auxiliary?<br><br>Glenda<br><br>This is the first message I have = >> received from ATEG. I was not sure it was an active list.<br><br>I have = >> a couple of brief observations:<br><br>1. You could interpret the = >> structure either way, but you also need to explain to students the = >> pragmatic meaning of the grammar in addition to labeling it with a = >> pedagogical grammar structure.<br><br>2. One pragmatic meaning of = >> "gonna" is to have an intention and subsequently a plan to do something. = >> Intentions entail plans.<br><br>3. You might also mention the informal = >> spoken linguistic register of the poem.<br><br>4. I was just reading = >> yesterday about the progressive tense in the British National Corpus = >> which found that overwhelming percentage of its use (65%) was what the = >> author described as "repeatedness" or in other words, "an ongoing single = >> event." An example of repeatedness from the corpus in the article was = >> "You are once again doing it completely and utterly wrong." The source = >> for this is a book chapter:<br><br>Romer, U. (2010). Using general and = >> specialized corpora in English language teaching: Past, present, and = >> future. In M. Compoy-Cubillo, B. Belles-Fortuno, and M. Gea-Valor. = >> (Eds.), Corpus-based approaches to English language teaching (pp. = >> 18-35). London: Continuum.<br><br>Romer conducted a large study of = >> progressive in a 2005 book, Progressives, patterns, pedagogy: A = >> corpus-driven approach to progressive forms, functions, contexts, and = >> dialectics.<br><br>I do not think repeatedness is the pragmatic function = >> of the line, but teaching students about using corpus studies, and = >> pragmatics to inform our knowledge of grammar is certainly worth the = >> time.<br><br>Mike Busch<br><br><br><br><br><br>Greetings-<br><br>Today, = >> in my Advanced English Grammar class, I showed Langston Hughes's = >> "Daybreak in Alabama" as an example of a poem with two = >> sentences.<br><br>I realized while showing the poem that I was not sure = >> how to divide the slots of the first main clause, which is<br><br>...I'm = >> gonna write me some music about<br>Daybreak in Alabama....<br><br>Shall = >> I think of "I'm gonna write" as being equivalent to "I will write," thus = >> considering "[a]m gonna" as an auxiliary to "write"?<br><br>Or shall I = >> think of "I'm gonna write" as being equivalent to "I am going to write," = >> thus considering "to write..." an adverbial infinitive phrase?<br><br>I = >> would love to read some discussion on this clause and to be able to = >> share it with my students = >> afterward.<br><br><br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Glenda Conway<br>Professor, = >> English<br>Coordinator, Harbert Writing Center<br>Department of English = >> and Foreign Languages Station 6420 University of Montevallo Montevallo, = >> AL 35115<br>205 665-6425 office<br>206 665-6422 = >> fax<br>[log in to unmask]<<a = >> href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">mailto:[log in to unmask]</a>&g= >> t;<br><br>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's = >> web interface at: <a = >> href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= >> hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the = >> list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = >> href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = >> this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <a = >> href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= >> hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the = >> list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = >> href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = >> this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: <a = >> href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= >> hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the = >> list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = >> href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = >> this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<br> = >> <a = >> href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= >> hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br>and select "Join or leave the = >> list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = >> href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = >> this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<br> = >> <a = >> href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= >> hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br>and select "Join or leave the = >> list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = >> href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br><br>To join or leave = >> this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:<br> = >> <a = >> href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muo= >> hio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br>and select "Join or leave the = >> list"<br><br>Visit ATEG's web site at <a = >> href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a><br></div></blockquote></div= >>> <br></div></body></html>= >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> <p> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> --Apple-Mail-1--394024945-- >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 13:13:03 -0400 >> From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> >> Subject: Re: -ish as grammatical morpheme >> >> --20cf30427066911e1704fe1649f0 >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> Gretchen McCulloch has a blog on ish >> <http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2014/06/09/ish_how_a_suffix_became_an_independent_word_even_though_it_s_not_in_all.html> >> on Slate.com. There is also seems a completely unrelated slang term ish >> used as a euphemism for shit >> <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ish>. >> >> Sue poses very interesting questions. Are there are two kinds of -ish, a >> noun suffix meaning -like which is derivational and fixed (childish, >> mannish, foolish) and another meaning "more or less" which can be used >> productively with adjectives (tallish, yellowish, temperamentalish) but >> also with times (sixish, noonish) and even nouns. Childish can be >> ambiguous: childish behavior, but also "Is he a child?" "He looks to be >> around 15, so child-ish." The latter would accent the second syllable. >> >> Dick Veit >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Susan Behrens <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> A recent article in American Speech discusses the suffix -ish as >>> lexicalizing, >>> i.e., changing from a grammatical marker to separate word status. For >>> example, >>> "I am ish about the upcoming meeting." >>> >>> My question: isn't -ish a derivational marker and not inflectional/grammar >>> functioning? OR are there two kinds: -ish that derives a new word (child >>> vs. >>> childish) and -ish that acts as a type of adjective marker of degree >>> (hungry >>> vs. hungryish). >>> >>> Thanks, Sue Behrens >>> Marymount Manhattan College >>> >>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface >>> at: >>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >>> and select "Join or leave the list" >>> >>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >>> >> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> --20cf30427066911e1704fe1649f0 >> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> <div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Gretchen McCulloch has a <a href=3D"http://www.s= >> late.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2014/06/09/ish_how_a_suffix_became_an_indepen= >> dent_word_even_though_it_s_not_in_all.html">blog on ish</a> on Slate.com. T= >> here is also seems a completely unrelated <a href=3D"http://www.urbandictio= >> nary.com/define.php?term=3Dish">slang term ish used as a euphemism for shit= >> </a>.<br> >> <br></div>Sue poses very interesting questions. Are there are two kinds of = >> -ish, a noun suffix meaning -like which is derivational and fixed (childish= >> , mannish, foolish) and another meaning "more or less" which can = >> be used productively with adjectives (tallish, yellowish, temperamentalish)= >> but also with times (sixish, noonish) and even nouns. Childish can be ambi= >> guous: childish behavior, but also "Is he a child?" "He look= >> s to be around 15, so child-ish." The latter would accent the second s= >> yllable.<br> >> </div><div><br></div>Dick Veit<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br>= >> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Susan Behrens <= >> span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">= >> [log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br> >> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= >> x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">A recent article in American Speech discusse= >> s the suffix -ish as lexicalizing,<br> >> i.e., changing from a grammatical marker to separate word status. For examp= >> le,<br> >> "I am ish about the upcoming meeting."<br> >> <br> >> My question: isn't -ish a derivational marker and not inflectional/gram= >> mar<br> >> functioning? OR are there two kinds: -ish that derives a new word (child vs= >> .<br> >> childish) and -ish that acts as a type of adjective marker of degree (hungr= >> y<br> >> vs. hungryish).<br> >> <br> >> Thanks, Sue Behrens<br> >> Marymount Manhattan College<br> >> <br> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf= >> ace at:<br> >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.htm= >> l" target=3D"_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a><br> >> and select "Join or leave the list"<br> >> <br> >> Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"= >>> http://ateg.org/</a><br> >> </blockquote></div><br></div> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >> and select "Join or leave the list" >> <p> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ >> >> --20cf30427066911e1704fe1649f0-- >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of ATEG Digest - 12 Jul 2014 to 13 Jul 2014 (#2014-29) >> ********************************************************** > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/