I'd say it's a matter of register. It's certainly not formal academic writing. The average freshman comp instructor would probably label it a sentence fragment. Hoowever, in dialog or in informal writing of other sorts it strikes me as both grammatical and apt. It has a clear topic-comment structure. Before the dash is background information, and after the dash is the predicate. Omission of subject pronoun and Be verb is a marker of informal, casual style. Herb -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2014 10:59 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Relevance of Syntax & Semantics: "I'm gonna write me some music about" Herbert, Please help with the following: Is this grammatically wrong? "Running errands, doing the laundry, walking the dogs--ready for this day to be over." Thanks! -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/11/14, Stahlke, Herbert <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Subject: Re: Relevance of Syntax & Semantics: "I'm gonna write me some music about" To: [log in to unmask] Date: Friday, July 11, 2014, 11:43 AM <[log in to unmask]>,<[log in to unmask]> In-Reply-To: <[log in to unmask]> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [216.183.137.164] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: x-forefront-prvs: 02698DF457 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(377454003)(199002)(189002)(36756003)(106116001)(2171001)(80022001)(21056001)(31966008)(89122001)(19625215002)(20776003)(95666004)(107886001)(16236675004)(76482001)(64706001)(79102001)(99396002)(19580405001)(85852003)(66066001)(2656002)(74502001)(88552001)(83322001)(93886003)(99286002)(83072002)(19580395003)(81542001)(74662001)(106356001)(92566001)(50986999)(101416001)(92726001)(85306003)(54356999)(75432001)(76176999)(105586002)(87936001)(4396001)(77982001)(46102001)(19627405001)(81342001)(107046002)(86362001)(18121605002)(19627315001)(19607625011);DIR:OUT;SFP:;SCL:1;SRVR:CO2PR05MB684;H:CO2PR05MB682.namprd05.prod.outlook.com;FPR:;MLV:sfv;PTR:InfoNoRecords;MX:1;LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_140509342553356225bsuedu_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: bsu.edu X-Miami-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-Miami-MailScanner-ID: s6BFhmmO029062 X-Miami-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Miami-MailScanner-From: [log in to unmask] X-Spam-Status: No --_000_140509342553356225bsuedu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd like to take Craig's thoughts a step further. As one who began his lin= guistic life doing field work on languages he knew little about, I'm sensit= ive to the influence a standard orthography has on our analyses. Suppose y= ou were doing field work on English with no orthography and little other in= formation to rely on--or be misled by. When you hear /aimn@go/ you would b= y no stretch of the imagination connect that to "I am going to go." Rather= , you'd identify the first person singular subject pronoun, the /m/ perhaps= marking progressive aspect (although you'd properly have doubts about that= conclusion), and the /n@/ as some sort of future or intentional marker wor= thy of considerably more research. Maybe, after comparing a number of dial= ects you might come up with a historical internal reconstruction that relat= ed the form to "am going to," but that would have about as much bearing on = your synchronic grammatical description as the equally historical discovery= that the -t of "height" and the -th of "width" are the same thing. I fear sometimes that the extent to which our descriptions look like our or= thography or our grammatical traditions, they are not evidence-based. The = fact is that the results of grammaticalization are frequently not recoverab= le except by diligent study by trained grammarians; they remain opaque to n= ormal native speakers. Herb Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D. Emeritus Professor of English Ball State University Muncie, IN 47306 [log in to unmask] ________________________________ From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask] DU> on behalf of Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 10:13 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Relevance of Syntax & Semantics: "I'm gonna write me some musi= c about" Bob, Phonetic reduction is a dynamic process directly related to frequency. = Since =93going to=94 can now combine in auxiliary like ways with main verbs= , its use has dramatically expanded. Frequency of use correlates well with = phonetic reduction. It=92s an observation about how language shifts in form= as it takes on new (expanded) function. Want to has expanded range of use = in the same way. The same patterns are at work in its reduction.The consens= us seems to be that it has modal like qualities. Biologists make observations about form all the time without thinking o= f life itself as a formal system. What we need, I think, is the equivalent = of an anatomy and physiology. In the world of biology, the two are dynamica= lly connected. No one would argue (scientifically) that biological forms ar= e independent of function and no one would propose that forms are unimporta= nt. In the biological world, it=92s hard to draw strict clear lines between= categories in part because adaptation is constant. Bybee=92s point=97and s= he=92s not the only one making it=97is that language is more like biology t= han it is like physics and chemistry. In some ways, this is a renewed inter= est in empirical observation. This is certainly not a retreat from form. Craig From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask] AMIOH.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob Yates Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:16 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Relevance of Syntax & Semantics: "I'm gonna write me some musi= c about" I=92m confused by the following observation from Craig. Sent from Windows Mail From: Hancock, Craig G<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: =FDThursday=FD, =FDJuly=FD =FD10=FD, =FD2014 =FD2=FD:=FD06=FD =FDPM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> As Bybee points out, the kind of phonetic reduction we get with 'gonna' and= oughtta' is typical of grammaticalization. We don't say "I'm gonna New Yor= k" for "I'm going to New York," but we do say "I'm gonna take the train to = New York" or "It's gonna rain." We only use it for expressions of intention= and prediction, which are modal in function. This would be a good formal a= rgument for "going to" functioning as a constituent group when modal functi= ons are carried out, but not for physical movement: going plus to New York. Now, if I understand Craig correctly, language is not a formal system, yet = he just made a formal distinction between =93going to=94 verb vs.=94 going = to=94 location. It seems to me that we are dealing with two different to= =92s. The to in =93going to=94 marks a verb and the to in making a locatio= n is a preposition. By the way, gonna reduction is also reflected in wanna. Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri --_000_140509342553356225bsuedu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1256" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1= 256"> <style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none"><!-- p { margin-top: 0px; m= argin-bottom: 0px; } @font-face { font-family: Calibri; } @font-face { font= -family: Tahoma; } p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0in 0= in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; } a:li= nk, span.MsoHyperlink { color: blue; text-decoration: underline; } a:visite= d, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { color: purple; text-decoration: underline; }= p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; fo= nt-size: 8pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; } p.MsoListParagraph, li.Mso= ListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; font-= size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; } p.msolistparagraphcxsp= first, li.msolistparagraphcxspfirst, div.msolistparagraphcxspfirst { margin= : 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: = 'Times New Roman', serif; } p.msolistparagraphcxspmiddle, li.msolistparagra= phcxspmiddle, div.msolistparagraphcxspmiddle { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5= in; line-height: 115%; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', ser= if; } p.msolistparagraphcxsplast, li.msolistparagraphcxsplast, div.msolistp= aragraphcxsplast { margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in; line-height: 115%; font-= size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; } span.BalloonTextChar {= font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; } span.EmailStyle25 { font-family: Calibr= i, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); } .MsoChpDefault { font-size: 10pt;= } @page WordSection1 { margin: 1in; }--></style> </head> <body dir=3D"ltr"> <div id=3D"OWAFontStyleDivID" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;backgro= und-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;"> <p>I'd like to take Craig's thoughts a step further. As one who began= his linguistic life doing field work on languages he knew little about, I'= m sensitive to the influence a standard orthography has on our analyses. &n= bsp;Suppose you were doing field work on English with no orthography and little other information to rely on--or be misled = by. When you hear /aimn@go/ you would by no stretch of the imaginatio= n connect that to "I am going to go." Rather, you'd identif= y the first person singular subject pronoun, the /m/ perhaps marking progressive aspect (although you'd properly have doub= ts about that conclusion), and the /n@/ as some sort of future or intention= al marker worthy of considerably more research. Maybe, after comparin= g a number of dialects you might come up with a historical internal reconstruction that related the form to "am goi= ng to," but that would have about as much bearing on your synchronic g= rammatical description as the equally historical discovery that the -t of &= quot;height" and the -th of "width" are the same thing. </p> <p><br> </p> <p>I fear sometimes that the extent to which our descriptions look like our= orthography or our grammatical traditions, they are not evidence-based. &n= bsp;The fact is that the results of grammaticalization are frequently not r= ecoverable except by diligent study by trained grammarians; they remain opaque to normal native speakers.<br> </p> <p><br> </p> <p>Herb <br> </p> <div> <p><br> </p> <p><br> </p> <div class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"> <div class=3D"PlainText">Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.<br> Emeritus Professor of English<br> Ball State University<br> Muncie, IN 47306<br> [log in to unmask]</div> </font></div> </div> <div style=3D"color: rgb(33, 33, 33);"> <hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%"> <div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" co= lor=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Assembly for the Teac= hing of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Hanc= ock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]><br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 11, 2014 10:13 AM<br> <b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Relevance of Syntax & Semantics: "I'm gonna wr= ite me some music about"</font> <div> </div> </div> <div> <div class=3D"WordSection1"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"C= alibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Bob,</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"C= alibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> Phon= etic reduction is a dynamic process directly related to frequency. Since = =93going to=94 can now combine in auxiliary like ways with main verbs, its = use has dramatically expanded. Frequency of use correlates well with phonetic = reduction. It=92s an observation about how language shifts in form as it ta= kes on new (expanded) function. <i>Want to</i> has expanded range of use in the same way. The same patterns= are at work in its reduction.The consensus seems to be that it has modal l= ike qualities.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"C= alibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> Biol= ogists make observations about form all the time without thinking of life i= tself as a formal system. What we need, I think, is the equivalent of an anatomy and physiology. In the world of biology, the two are dynamically c= onnected. No one would argue (scientifically) that biological forms are ind= ependent of function and no one would propose that forms are unimportant. </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"C= alibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">  = ;In the biological world, it=92s hard to draw strict clear lines between ca= tegories in part because adaptation is constant. Bybee=92s point=97and she= =92s not the only one making it=97is that language is more like biology than it is like= physics and chemistry. In some ways, this is a renewed interest in empiric= al observation. This is certainly not a retreat from form. </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"C= alibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"C= alibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Craig</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"C= alibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D"> </span></p> <div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0i= n 0in 0in"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:&quo= t;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-= size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Assemb= ly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Yates<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:16 PM<br> <b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Relevance of Syntax & Semantics: "I'm gonna wr= ite me some music about"</span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","= ;sans-serif"">I=92m confused by the following observation from Craig.<= /span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","= ;sans-serif""> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","= ;sans-serif""> </span></p> </div> <div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","= ;sans-serif""> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","= ;sans-serif"">Sent from Windows Mail</span></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","= ;sans-serif""> </span></p> </div> </div> <div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E5E5E5 1.0pt; padding:4.0pt 0i= n 0in 0in"> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",&q= uot;sans-serif"; letter-spacing:.25pt">From:</span></b><span style=3D"= font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; letter-spacing:.25p= t"> <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_parent">Hancock,= Craig G</a><br> <b>Sent:</b> =FDThursday=FD, =FDJuly=FD =FD10=FD, =FD2014 =FD2=FD:=FD0= 6=FD =FDPM<br> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_par= ent">[log in to unmask]</a></span><span style=3D"font-family:"C= alibri","sans-serif""></span></p> </div> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","= ;sans-serif""> </span></p> </div> <div> <div id=3D"OWAFontStyleDivID"> <p style=3D"background:white"><em><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri&= quot;,"sans-serif"; color:black">As Bybee points out, t</span></e= m><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; co= lor:black">he kind of phonetic reduction we get with 'gonna' and oughtta' i= s typical of grammaticalization. We don't say "I'm gonna New York" for &qu= ot;I'm going to New York," but we do say "I'm gonna take the trai= n to New York" or "It's gonna rain." We only use it for expr= essions of intention and prediction, which are modal in function. This woul= d be a good formal argument for "going to" functioning as a consti= tuent group when modal functions are carried out, but not for physical move= ment: <em><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">= going</span></em> plus <em><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri",&= quot;sans-serif"">to New York</span></em>. </span></p> <p style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri"= ;,"sans-serif"; color:black"> </span></p> <p style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri"= ;,"sans-serif"; color:black">Now, if I understand Craig correctly= , language is not a formal system, yet he just made a formal distinction be= tween =93going to=94 verb vs.=94 going to=94 location. It seems to me that we are dealing with two different to=92s. The to in = =93going to=94 marks a verb and the to in making a location is a&= nbsp;preposition. </span></p> <p style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri"= ;,"sans-serif"; color:black"> </span></p> <p style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri"= ;,"sans-serif"; color:black">By the way, gonna reduction is = also reflected in wanna. </span></p> <p style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri"= ;,"sans-serif"; color:black"> </span></p> <p style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-family:"Calibri"= ;,"sans-serif"; color:black">Bob Yates, University of Central Mis= souri </span></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> --_000_140509342553356225bsuedu_-- To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/