Failing for two errors (or some other number) has a name -- Fatal Error Policy. If you go to http://ncarbone.blogspot.com/2014/09/slow-editing-and-student-error.html, my post leads off with a link and quote from an FEP that fails for three. On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Castilleja, Janet < [log in to unmask]> wrote: > Boy, you guys are tough! It's not a fragment, and I would be very happy > to get a sentence like this from my students. It's hard for me to imagine a > grading system that would require failure for "two fatal errors." > > Janet > > -----Original Message----- > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto: > [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Catledge > Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 5:51 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47) > > I am a former English teacher and professor and a grammar buff. I do not > like the sentence (poorly worded) but I do not find it a fragment. One of > my final exam questions for a senior college prep class at a fundamentalist > university required each student to diagram "For I know whom I have belived > and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto > Him against that day." It's passing but barely. > Scott Catledge, Professor Emeritus > ---- ATEG automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > There are 7 messages totaling 810 lines in this issue. > > > > Topics of the day: > > > > 1. Advice! (7) > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 08:55:24 -0500 > > From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Advice! > > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers (primarily > lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. Please > comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I commented > just yet - I'd like to get your views): > > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last > sentence a fragment: > > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the > best of man but he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to > all that standing by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test > of being a man of true worth." > > The > paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, wording, and > mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal errors (she has > another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric being used gives > the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is questing (sic) > this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to non-fragment her > daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is another > argument.Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the > essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and > Momma wants a B. > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 10:18:19 -0400 > > From: Don Stewart <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: Advice! > > > > Geoff, > > > > I have noticed sentences beginning with the coordinating conjunction > "For" > > with increasing frequency over the past couple of decades. But "But" > > and "And" seem to have become pretty common and accepted as sentence > > starters, so I would be hard-pressed to nail a kid for this error. > > > > Will the girl be at the meeting? Has she been asked about why she > > constructed the sentence this way? Interesting family dynamics, though. > > > > Don Stewart > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700 > > From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: Advice! > > > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, but > it’s syntactically complete. > > > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking verb-complement > structure: “this quote is a reminder …” > > > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content > clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this > clause is finite, as it should be. > > > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, > that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment. > > > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way > because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences > beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that > such creates a fragment. > > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers > (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. > Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I > commented just yet - I'd like to get your views): > > > > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last > sentence a fragment: > > > > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he > worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by > each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true > worth." > > > > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, > wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal > errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric > being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is > questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to > non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is > another argument. > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the essay, > the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and Momma > wants a B. > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:29:11 -0700 > > From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: Advice! > > > > Don, > > > > I don’t believe there’s anything recent about it: > > > > “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son…” > > > > And all the major style books approve of the practice, in moderation. It > doesn’t create a fragment. > > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:18 AM, Don Stewart <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > Geoff, > > > > > > I have noticed sentences beginning with the coordinating conjunction > "For" with increasing frequency over the past couple of decades. But "But" > and "And" seem to have become pretty common and accepted as sentence > starters, so I would be hard-pressed to nail a kid for this error. > > > > > > Will the girl be at the meeting? Has she been asked about why she > constructed the sentence this way? Interesting family dynamics, though. > > > > > > Don Stewart > > > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 09:38:33 -0500 > > From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: Advice! > > > > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and > stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more? > > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700 > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: Advice! > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, > but it’s syntactically complete. > > > > > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking > verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …” > > > > > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content > clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this > clause is finite, as it should be. > > > > > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, > that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment. > > > > > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way > because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences > beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that > such creates a fragment. > > > > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers > (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. > Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I > commented just yet - I'd like to get your views): > > > > > > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last > sentence a fragment: > > > > > > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he > worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by > each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true > worth." > > > > > > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, > wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal > errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric > being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is > questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to > non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is > another argument. > > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the > essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and > Momma wants a B. > > > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 08:58:06 -0700 > > From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: Advice! > > > > Sure, Geoff. > > > > Stylistically, notice that the skeleton of the sentence is build around > two instances of the verb “to be”—the prototypical light verb, one lacking > in semantic content. As a result of that decision, concepts that express > the real activity in the sentence are expressed as abstract nouns or > gerunds. The second gerund (“being a man of true worth”) is worse than the > first. It’s particularly unfortunate in that using a gerund here requires > repeated “of” phrases in succession. Additionally (and this may just be my > personal preference), I find, as a general rule, that gerunds read better > as subjects than as objects of prepositions. > > > > If we start playing with the sentence structure to try to fix some of > these problems, other issues start turning up that are somewhat concealed > by the original phrasing. > > > > For example (see, I started a sentence with “for”!), lets change “is a > reminder” to “reminds,” getting rid of the first light verb. We then have > to decide what to make the object of the verb. What does the author mean by > “to all”? Are we talking about the community of people in Beowulf? The > original audience of the poem? Human beings generally? If the author has > the last one in mind, we could say “this quote reminds us that.” But if so, > the author is effectively quote-mining Beowulf for tidy, didactic, moral > lessons, a practice that should not be acceptable in an AP-level course. > (This is partly what I had in mind when I called the passage inane.) If one > of the other interpretations was intended, then the author is unacceptably > vague, and has further chosen a subject for his or her sentence that > misleads the reader into assuming that the universal interpretation is > intended. If you say “this quote reminds,” you are implying that we’re > discussing the quote as an isolated entity, rather than for its relevance > to the poem itself. > > > > Additional stylistic problems include the awkward repetition of “this > quote” as the subject of two successive sentences and the reliance on > cliched phrasing (best of man…worst of man; through tick and thin). > > > > Now let’s turn to the core proposition of the sentence: "standing by > each other, through thick and thin, is the true test of being a man of > worth." > > > > “Each other” is a reciprocal expression. It requires a plural > antecedent. (cf., *Bob helped each other). And while it’s true that > antecedent here is “to all,” we immediately shift to talking about “a man.” > On the surface level, that’s a noun-noun agreement error, but if we fix it > at that level, we highlight the sexism inherent in the sentence: all = men. > > > > As is so often the case, the cliche substitutes for clear thought. > Standing by someone during the “thick” (i.e., good) times is not the point > here. The real issue is how you treat your companions when you’re all in > extreme danger. And although I’m not sure exactly what lines are under > discussion (perhaps something from Wiglaf in his final speech?), it’s clear > that the author has abstracted the situation and denuded it of the military > context of the original. Facing grave danger in battle has become merely > “standing by each other.” Like so many students, the writer takes refuge in > vague generalities. > > > > Beyond all this, there’s the question of how the two sentences at issue > are logically linked. My problem with “for” is not syntactic but semantic. > Here’s the structure: > > > > Proposition 1: The quote illustrates both the best and worst qualities > of man. > > > > - Because - > > > > Proposition 2: It reminds us that the worthy man stands by his > companions in all circumstances. > > > > Proposition 2 is not a logical explanation of proposition 1. It > > doesn’t show both the best and worst qualities. At most it shows one > > positive quality. The author may have some fuzzy notion that, by > > emphasizing the quality of steadfast devotion to one’s companions as > > the measure of the heroic warrior, the passage simultaneously marks > > cowardice as the ordinary condition of men, but nothing close to that > > is ever expressed. It seems more likely that the author is making a > > series of unconnected statements and slapping a connecting word on to > > give the semblance of a link. (More inanity.) > > > > Side note: does the author really want to say that the quote illustrates > these qualities, or is the quote actually asserting something about the > nature of these qualities? > > > > Karl > > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:38 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and > stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more? > > > > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700 > > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > > Subject: Re: Advice! > > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, > but it’s syntactically complete. > > > > > > > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking > verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …” > > > > > > > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content > clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this > clause is finite, as it should be. > > > > > > > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and > substance, that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a > fragment. > > > > > > > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way > because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences > beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that > such creates a fragment. > > > > > > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers > (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. > Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I > commented just yet - I'd like to get your views): > > > > > > > > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the > last sentence a fragment: > > > > > > > > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but > he worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing > by each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of > true worth." > > > > > > > > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, > wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal > errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric > being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is > questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to > non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is > another argument. > > > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the > essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and > Momma wants a B. > > > > > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 18:32:29 +0000 > > From: "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]> > > Subject: Re: Advice! > > > > It's hard to make a judgement about the quality of student writing from > a single sentence taken out of context. Writing about literature is a very > specialized discourse, and students routinely go about it awkwardly in > early stages. (Is she writing about a quote or a statement? That's a > routine awkwardness.) On the other hand, calling the sentence a "fragment" > is a clear mistake. That doesn't give me much faith in the teacher. I would > hope that the grade is based on far more substantial judgements about a > much larger text than we have in front of us. Clearly, the student and her > mother are confused about the grade and want to jump on this sentence as > part of a claim that the grade wasn't thoughtful. You can't use a grade as > a teaching tool if the judgement is unclear or the student thinks it's > arbitrary. I would hope that the teacher could place the student's current > writing on a continuum of expected progress. That's what the meeting should > be about. How would the student work toward improving? What is she > currently doing well? how can the teacher design assignments that would > help that process along? > Craig > _________________________________ > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar < > [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2014 11:58 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Advice! > > Sure, Geoff. > > Stylistically, notice that the skeleton of the sentence is build around > two instances of the verb “to be”—the prototypical light verb, one lacking > in semantic content. As a result of that decision, concepts that express > the real activity in the sentence are expressed as abstract nouns or > gerunds. The second gerund (“being a man of true worth”) is worse than the > first. It’s particularly unfortunate in that using a gerund here requires > repeated “of” phrases in succession. Additionally (and this may just be my > personal preference), I find, as a general rule, that gerunds read better > as subjects than as objects of prepositions. > > If we start playing with the sentence structure to try to fix some of > these problems, other issues start turning up that are somewhat concealed > by the original phrasing. > > For example (see, I started a sentence with “for”!), lets change “is a > reminder” to “reminds,” getting rid of the first light verb. We then have > to decide what to make the object of the verb. What does the author mean by > “to all”? Are we talking about the community of people in Beowulf? The > original audience of the poem? Human beings generally? If the author has > the last one in mind, we could say “this quote reminds us that.” But if so, > the author is effectively quote-mining Beowulf for tidy, didactic, moral > lessons, a practice that should not be acceptable in an AP-level course. > (This is partly what I had in mind when I called the passage inane.) If one > of the other interpretations was intended, then the author is unacceptably > vague, and has further chosen a subject for his or her sentence that > misleads the reader into assuming that the universal interpretation is > intended. If you say “this quote reminds,” you are implying that we’re > discussing the quote as an isolated entity, rather than for its relevance > to the poem itself. > > Additional stylistic problems include the awkward repetition of “this > quote” as the subject of two successive sentences and the reliance on > cliched phrasing (best of man…worst of man; through tick and thin). > > Now let’s turn to the core proposition of the sentence: "standing by each > other, through thick and thin, is the true test of being a man of worth." > > “Each other” is a reciprocal expression. It requires a plural antecedent. > (cf., *Bob helped each other). And while it’s true that antecedent here is > “to all,” we immediately shift to talking about “a man.” On the surface > level, that’s a noun-noun agreement error, but if we fix it at that level, > we highlight the sexism inherent in the sentence: all = men. > > As is so often the case, the cliche substitutes for clear thought. > Standing by someone during the “thick” (i.e., good) times is not the point > here. The real issue is how you treat your companions when you’re all in > extreme danger. And although I’m not sure exactly what lines are under > discussion (perhaps something from Wiglaf in his final speech?), it’s clear > that the author has abstracted the situation and denuded it of the military > context of the original. Facing grave danger in battle has become merely > “standing by each other.” Like so many students, the writer takes refuge in > vague generalities. > > Beyond all this, there’s the question of how the two sentences at issue > are logically linked. My problem with “for” is not syntactic but semantic. > Here’s the structure: > > Proposition 1: The quote illustrates both the best and worst qualities of > man. > > - Because - > > Proposition 2: It reminds us that the worthy man stands by his companions > in all circumstances. > > Proposition 2 is not a logical explanation of proposition 1. It doesn’t > show both the best and worst qualities. At most it shows one positive > quality. The author may have some fuzzy notion that, by emphasizing the > quality of steadfast devotion to one’s companions as the measure of the > heroic warrior, the passage simultaneously marks cowardice as the ordinary > condition of men, but nothing close to that is ever expressed. It seems > more likely that the author is making a series of unconnected statements > and slapping a connecting word on to give the semblance of a link. (More > inanity.) > > Side note: does the author really want to say that the quote illustrates > these qualities, or is the quote actually asserting something about the > nature of these qualities? > > Karl > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 7:38 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > Karl - I'm curious about your finding the clause "inane and > stylistically inept." Could you comment on that some more? > > > > > Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2014 07:26:25 -0700 > > > From: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: Advice! > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > > > The sentence is not a fragment. It’s inane and stylistically inept, > but it’s syntactically complete. > > > > > > The matrix of the main clause follows a subject-linking > verb-complement structure: “this quote is a reminder …” > > > > > > The complement contains a content clause. The subject of the content > clause is a gerund phrase: “standing by each other”, and the verb in this > clause is finite, as it should be. > > > > > > There are multiple issues with this sentence, in style and substance, > that go far beyond anything a simple fix could do even it were a fragment. > > > > > > A side note: I’m curious if the teacher marked the sentence this way > because of “for”. I’ve run across teachers in the past who mark sentences > beginning with the FANBOYS words as incorrect because they believe that > such creates a fragment. > > > > > > On Oct 5, 2014, at 6:55 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> > wrote: > > > > > > > I'm a member of a listserve populated by AP English teachers > (primarily lit but also comp), and the following issue has recently arisen. > Please comment - I would very much appreciate it (I won't tell you how I > commented just yet - I'd like to get your views): > > > > > > > > Please read the following and tell me if you would consider the last > sentence a fragment: > > > > > > > > "This quote from Beowulf exemplifies not only the best of man but he > worst of man as well. For this quote is a reminder to all that standing by > each other, through thick and thin,is the real test of being a man of true > worth." > > > > > > > > The paper from which this is taken is extremely weak in content, > wording, and mechanics.This is marked as a fragment and with two fatal > errors (she has another which the parent admits is a fragment), the rubric > being used gives the student a score of 50 and, of course, the parent is > questing (sic) this one sentence and is thinking it if it is changed to > non-fragment her daughter will receive a B on the paper--but that is > another argument. > > > > Please respond ASAP. The principal, the teacher who scored the > essay, the parent, and I have a meeting Monday. Exams are Wednesday and > Momma wants a B. > > > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at:http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of ATEG Digest - 23 Sep 2014 to 5 Oct 2014 (#2014-47) > > ********************************************************* > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface > at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > -- nick.carbone at gmail dot com http://ncarbone.blogspot.com To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/