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On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 6:50 AM, Anne Osman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I'm for the comma.  The alternative would be to write, "The problem is
> that I'm not attracted to him."
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 8:01 AM, ATEG automatic digest system <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> There are 10 messages totaling 1076 lines in this issue.
>>
>> Topics of the day:
>>
>>   1. The problem is(,) (7)
>>   2. ought to/should (3)
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Date:    Wed, 28 Jan 2015 10:19:03 -0500
>> From:    Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: The problem is(,)
>>
>> My adult ESOL students love the "Dear Abby" advice column, and I came upon
>> this sentence in today's column:
>>
>>        The problem is, I'm not attracted to him.
>>
>> Should the comma be there?
>>
>> Like me, I'm guessing your first response is no, since a comma between a
>> verb and its complement (or object) is nonstandard.
>>
>> On further thought, I'm not so sure.
>>
>> There are two ways of reading those words. One is with unstressed "is" and
>> no pause between "is" and "I'm." If the comma is omitted, a reader is
>> likely to assume this reading.
>>
>> The sentence can also be read, however, with stress on "is" and a pause
>> before "I'm." The case for the comma is:
>>
>> (1) A writer can't invoke this reading without the comma, and
>> (2) This reading is equivalent to "To my chagrin, I'm not attracted to
>> him"--i.e., "The problem is" could be considered adverbial, making the
>> comma appropriate.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> Dick Veit,
>> emeritus linguistics prof and volunteer ESOL teacher
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
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>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date:    Wed, 28 Jan 2015 07:50:45 -0800
>> From:    Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: The problem is(,)
>>
>> I vote for the comma. My reasoning is, the example uses a bare content
>> clause (i.e., 'that' is omitted) in a circumstance where omitting the
>> subordinator potentially creates confusion. Notice what I did in the
>> previous sentence? I think the comma is even more necessary there, as it's
>> much easier to read "the example" as the complement without the comma. In
>> other words, if I omit the comma there, I risk creating a garden-path
>> sentence.
>>
>> Using the comma to avoid this misreading is parallel to using one in
>> elliptical constructions:
>>
>> Alice favors construction grammar; Bob, transformational.
>>
>> What we really have are two comma rules that conflict, and we need to
>> decide which one dominates (if I can borrow the terminology of Optimality
>> Theory). If we say that the normal no-comma rule takes precedence over the
>> use-commas-for-elliptical-constructions rule, then we're basically saying
>> you cannot omit "that" in this context, which is clearly descriptively
>> wrong. (By the way, does anyone know of an Optimality Theory study of
>> English punctuation rules?)
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 28, 2015, at 7:19 AM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >
>> > My adult ESOL students love the "Dear Abby" advice column, and I came
>> upon this sentence in today's column:
>> >
>> >        The problem is, I'm not attracted to him.
>> >
>> > Should the comma be there?
>> >
>> > Like me, I'm guessing your first response is no, since a comma between
>> a verb and its complement (or object) is nonstandard.
>> >
>> > On further thought, I'm not so sure.
>> >
>> > There are two ways of reading those words. One is with unstressed "is"
>> and no pause between "is" and "I'm." If the comma is omitted, a reader is
>> likely to assume this reading.
>> >
>> > The sentence can also be read, however, with stress on "is" and a pause
>> before "I'm." The case for the comma is:
>> >
>> > (1) A writer can't invoke this reading without the comma, and
>> > (2) This reading is equivalent to "To my chagrin, I'm not attracted to
>> him"--i.e., "The problem is" could be considered adverbial, making the
>> comma appropriate.
>> >
>> > What do you think?
>> >
>> > Dick Veit,
>> > emeritus linguistics prof and volunteer ESOL teacher
>> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
>> "Join or leave the list"
>> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>> >
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
>>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date:    Wed, 28 Jan 2015 16:58:04 +0000
>> From:    "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: The problem is(,)
>>
>> If you do a search on COCA, you come up with 8544 entries, many of them
>> sentence opening. When we have this kind of frequency of use, it's fair to
>> say that it's a construction and may have developed meanings and functions
>> AS A UNIT that are separate from its component syntax. If I write "the
>> problem is Charlie," then the sentence is straightforward. But if I write
>> "The problem is, Charlie is stupid," then "the problem is" can be seen as a
>> thematic opening to a statement about Charlie.  (Similar to Dick's "to my
>> chagrin," or even "unfortunately.")
>>     I haven't the time to do a full analysis, but there does seem to be a
>> pattern. When "that" is included, no comma. When "that" is left out, the
>> comma is routine.
>>     Here's an example from Cosmopolitan (the first on the list): "The
>> problem is, if we look at the summer and the trajectory is up, he..."
>>     This one is from the New York Times: "The problem is, it isn't easy
>> politically to make a 180 degree turn."
>>     Another from fiction: "The problem is, the murderers have snatched
>> one of our people."
>> The structure ("the problem is" plus comma as sentence opener) seems
>> common in respectable places.
>>
>> Craig
>>
>> ----Original Message-----
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
>> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Karl Hagen
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 10:51 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: The problem is(,)
>>
>> I vote for the comma. My reasoning is, the example uses a bare content
>> clause (i.e., 'that' is omitted) in a circumstance where omitting the
>> subordinator potentially creates confusion. Notice what I did in the
>> previous sentence? I think the comma is even more necessary there, as it's
>> much easier to read "the example" as the complement without the comma. In
>> other words, if I omit the comma there, I risk creating a garden-path
>> sentence.
>>
>> Using the comma to avoid this misreading is parallel to using one in
>> elliptical constructions:
>>
>> Alice favors construction grammar; Bob, transformational.
>>
>> What we really have are two comma rules that conflict, and we need to
>> decide which one dominates (if I can borrow the terminology of Optimality
>> Theory). If we say that the normal no-comma rule takes precedence over the
>> use-commas-for-elliptical-constructions rule, then we're basically saying
>> you cannot omit "that" in this context, which is clearly descriptively
>> wrong. (By the way, does anyone know of an Optimality Theory study of
>> English punctuation rules?)
>>
>>
>> > On Jan 28, 2015, at 7:19 AM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >
>> > My adult ESOL students love the "Dear Abby" advice column, and I came
>> upon this sentence in today's column:
>> >
>> >        The problem is, I'm not attracted to him.
>> >
>> > Should the comma be there?
>> >
>> > Like me, I'm guessing your first response is no, since a comma between
>> a verb and its complement (or object) is nonstandard.
>> >
>> > On further thought, I'm not so sure.
>> >
>> > There are two ways of reading those words. One is with unstressed "is"
>> and no pause between "is" and "I'm." If the comma is omitted, a reader is
>> likely to assume this reading.
>> >
>> > The sentence can also be read, however, with stress on "is" and a pause
>> before "I'm." The case for the comma is:
>> >
>> > (1) A writer can't invoke this reading without the comma, and
>> > (2) This reading is equivalent to "To my chagrin, I'm not attracted to
>> him"--i.e., "The problem is" could be considered adverbial, making the
>> comma appropriate.
>> >
>> > What do you think?
>> >
>> > Dick Veit,
>> > emeritus linguistics prof and volunteer ESOL teacher To join or leave
>> > this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave
>> the list"
>> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>> >
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
>>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
>>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date:    Wed, 28 Jan 2015 12:23:46 -0500
>> From:    John Chorazy <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: The problem is(,)
>>
>> This reminds me of the double "is" construction (ISIS) that has become so
>> prevalent, from the President down...
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Hancock, Craig G <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > If you do a search on COCA, you come up with 8544 entries, many of them
>> > sentence opening. When we have this kind of frequency of use, it's fair
>> to
>> > say that it's a construction and may have developed meanings and
>> functions
>> > AS A UNIT that are separate from its component syntax. If I write "the
>> > problem is Charlie," then the sentence is straightforward. But if I
>> write
>> > "The problem is, Charlie is stupid," then "the problem is" can be seen
>> as a
>> > thematic opening to a statement about Charlie.  (Similar to Dick's "to
>> my
>> > chagrin," or even "unfortunately.")
>> >     I haven't the time to do a full analysis, but there does seem to be
>> a
>> > pattern. When "that" is included, no comma. When "that" is left out, the
>> > comma is routine.
>> >     Here's an example from Cosmopolitan (the first on the list): "The
>> > problem is, if we look at the summer and the trajectory is up, he..."
>> >     This one is from the New York Times: "The problem is, it isn't easy
>> > politically to make a 180 degree turn."
>> >     Another from fiction: "The problem is, the murderers have snatched
>> one
>> > of our people."
>> > The structure ("the problem is" plus comma as sentence opener) seems
>> > common in respectable places.
>> >
>> > Craig
>> >
>> > ----Original Message-----
>> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
>> "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>

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