Linda's suggestions make sense to me. I don't think we normally associate being in control as extra important on a first date, and the "you" positions this as a universal experience. Maybe I'm an emotional outlier with faded memories. I admit I haven't been on a first date for decades. If they said "making a good impression," I might be on board.
I wonder if they have problems with "really," as in "really embarrassing." "Very" would be more standard.
It is hard to make given/new judgments outside of discourse context, which may be one reason the handbooks avoid it. Sentences are not complete thoughts, and students need practice revising them within the context of their developing texts.
I have been disappointed with the grammar section of the OWL lately. I have stopped recommending the punctuation section.
Craig
Linda Di Desidero, PhD
Director, Leadership Communication Skills Center
Marine Corps University
Gray Research Center, Room 122
Quantico, Virginia 22134
Great call, Geoff--I think the given-new concept is exactly what's going on here. Thanks!John
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On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
... If you do all this, you might just wind up with a sentence fragment! Effective internet proofreading always occurs after the message has been sent.
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 09:30:43 -0600
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Question
To: [log in to unmask]
John,To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
The fact that it feels ungrammatical might stem from the fact that it violates the the "known/new" rule. The piece of "known" information that controls the narrative is the date. So, if you put the "when" information first in a dependent clause (the first date), then create the "new information" (the effect = the embarrassment) followed by the cause (desire to be in control).
When you're on your first date, it can be really embarrassing to be so emotional because you feel you should be in control.
While other solutions you propose are certainly more than acceptable, teaching students to start a sentence with "When" (or "known") information seems to produce pretty good results (NOTE THE CONSTRUCTION OF THIS SENTENCE: DEPENDENT OR "KNOWN" INFORMATION FIRST, FOLLOWED BY THE NEW).
Geoff Layton
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 08:37:29 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Question
To: [log in to unmask]
I saw the following item on an exercise from Purdue's OWL:To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
____ 6. It can be really embarrassing to be so emotional. Especially when you are on your first date, you feel that you should be in control.
Grammatically there is no fragment here. But the 2nd sentence FEELS ungrammatical. Is it just awkward or does it violate some rule? The following permutations are fine:
6a. It can be really embarrassing to be so emotional, especially when you are on your first date. You feel that you should be in control.
6b. It can be really embarrassing to be so emotional. You feel that you should be in control, especially when you are on your first date.
Thanks!
John
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/