Yesterday, Carole Hamilton asked a question about which grammar text to choose for a college prep high school class (specifically 9th grade). I'm very interested in hearing what others have to say. I can't specifically comment as to whether Grammar Fundamentals or Rules of Thumb works best (having never taught 9th grade). My comments are very tentative as a result and are based on the teaching I've done and from sitting in on the required Grammar class for future secondary teachers. I've listened to the students and have talked with them about their student teaching experiences as well as their experiences as students of grammar. Although I am hesitant to "publish" this info yet (mostly because I am not sure of its validity across a broad spectrum), I am hoping that sharing it with this forum will add to the dialogue. Two observations have been relatively consis- tent: --the students who do best in the grammar classes enjoyed grammar in 8/9 grade; their teachers made it seem integral to writing somehow. --these students prefer learning about it in a more integrated environment, and believe that some exercises are ok for explanatory/clarification, but they prefer to learn it from a context of their own (and others') writing. And many of them think they will try to teach it that way. This doesn't answer Carole's question, but clearly her question is neither old hat nor without value. In some ways, her question seems to me (as someone who has taught writing and is learning about grammar and its usefulness for the first time) one of the most central questions. How do we teach grammar? What kinds of tools do we use to help us? How complex should they be? Jim Dubinsky