It's nice to hear from other people teaching at the college level who share some of my concerns and difficulties. I think our grammar course has the go-ahead; perhaps its success, which I anticipate, will raise some eyebrows. I would love to hear from people teaching at other levels. But Daniel's consolation that people outside the profession often have more respect for 'grammar' than insiders has a hidden thorn: what they think of as 'grammar' are the tedious, decontextualized skills-and-drills lessons that he decries, and that's what they support (or insist on). this is reflected very clearly in the Language Arts packages that publishers have sent to the CA state dept. of ed. for adoption in the public schools. The sections on writing, literature, etc., are very up-to-date, reflecting research and practice in the teaching of writing and literature as well as a strong multicultural orientation. But the grammar sections could have been lifted from any 1950 primer. No sign of what is known about the insufficiency of the traditional approach to grammar. I can't figure out what motivated the publishers to do it this way. I hope that letters I will be sending to them might clear it up. As to fear and loathing, I get very interesting (and to me puzzling) ranges of reaction when I talk to people about grammar, from elementary through high-school to college teachers. So far all that I've discovered is that it is a very emotional issue on all sorts of fronts: from insecurity about one's own mastery of trad. grammar to a blind willingness to perpetuate prejudice against nonstandard English to frustration with students who haven't learned 'grammar' to anger about -- I don't know what! All I know is that the mere mention of the word evokes all kinds of assumptions and reactions, and I am gingerly navigating the waters. Any help would be appreciated! As to Emily's hope for motivated, interested students -- better be prepared for all varieties. That's one of the things that makes these courses hard to teach. Despite what linguists know about what native speakers unconsciously know about their native language, it seems next to impossible to drag that knowledge to consciousness for some students (perhaps a larger number than one might anticipate). Johanna ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Johanna Rubba Assistant Professor, Linguistics ~ English Department, California Polytechnic State University ~ San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 ~ Tel. (805)-756-2184 E-mail: [log in to unmask] ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~