We at Cal Poly are also just beginning the process of formulating such a course (English grammar for prospective teachers). Our students are also asking for it; it was also being demanded at Humboldt State, another branch of Cal State U. There is resistance to such courses, because they are viewed as 'remedial'. Here we go again. Well, an awful lot of my students are coming in here not knowing anything at all about traditional grammar (nouns, verbs, predicate adjectives, subjects and predicates). I find that this introduces enormous difficulties in other courses that I teach -- not just Modern English Grammar (a course in the linguistic structure of English), but also in other courses: a course in child language acquisition for future teachers; a course on history of the English language; an upcoming course on linguistic analysis of literature; even general linguistics. I like the pre-med analogy. If you are going to foster children's acquisition of literacy and of formal standard American English (the variety of English most people think of as 'good English'), it helps an awful lot to have a set of terms that enable you to discuss the structure of a sentence and what letters stand for (phonemes), etc. I also just find it incredibly difficult to talk about language acquisition or language change when students have no notion of what language is -- that it has parts, like phonemes, nouns, verbs, subjects, predicates, and constructions of all sorts, plus patterns (rules) for arranging the parts into larger parts. As it is, I have to teach them language structure, grammatical terminology, AND lg. acquisition/history/whatever. It is a terrible burden, and quite unrealistic in a 10-week term. (I can't set up a gen. ling. course as a prerequisite; those decisions have already been made). My students didn't learn grammar in the 'lower' schools. Yeah, teaching it to them now might be 'remedial', but which is better: they never learn it, and remain without a language to talk about language for the rest of their careers; or we just teach it to them?? Our college is thinking of a compromise, for instance offering it as a 2-unit course rather than full 3 or 4 units. I don't like this, because there is a lot of material to teach; but it's better than nothing. If people in the same boat would like to continue this discussion, maybe we could stay in touch with each other. I think a lot of schools have this problem! Johanna ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Johanna Rubba Assistant Professor, Linguistics ~ English Department, California Polytechnic State University ~ San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 ~ Tel. (805)-756-2184 E-mail: [log in to unmask] ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~