[This message was originally submitted by [log in to unmask] to the ATEG list] Ed Vavra's question, asking how we identify those to whom we teach grammar: a) it is not a problem for those who believe that grammar (metalanguage issues) ought to be taught only in elective courses, where the student decides whether to study it; b) start wherever you believe students should start and end. If 3-graduate school, 1-life, or 3-8 (which is the most common in schools), then one can specify. What we can't do, I think, is assume that everyone believes the same about it. Yes?