I've been following this discussion with a lot of interest. I teach at a small college located on an Indian reservation. The majority of our students are at-risk in every way. A number of the freshman I'm seeing now are current, ex- or pseudo- gang members. I teach a developmental reading course as well as grammar for prospective teachers & other linguistics and methods classes. Our beginning students have the problems expressed by the previous writers, but there is one major difference: our students have chosen to go to college. It seems to me, (and I say this even though I believe grammar instruction is important) that before any criticism of student writing takes place, students have to write. So the question is "How do you encourage reluctant readers and writers to read and write?". This led me to ask myself, "Why do I read and write?". I read and write because these activities have and have had immediate and long-term benefits for me. As a lonely and isolated child, reading gave me a way to live outside myself; as an adult, these activities have provided me with a living and an interesting occupation. So what's in it for our students? What is the utility of being able to read and write for the inner city student or the poor, rural single mother? Rather than rail at the inadequacies of our students, I think we would be better off figuring out what we have to offer students. I personally believe that my students' lives will be improved and they will be better equipped to achieve their goals if they are readers and writers, but if we cannot show our students that there is a clear and achievable payoff, we probably will not be able to convince them to read and write. On a more practical note, I have found that my students, although they initially deny it, encounter reading and writing regularly. They buy stereo systems and cars on contracts they haven't read; they have encounters with attorneys and the court system that require careful reading and response which students can't achieve. Social service agencies expect a lot of paper work. Applying for college entrance and for financial aid require very complex skills. As I talk to students, I see that reading and writing are required in their everyday lives, and I think this is the place to start. It's been my experience that my students are in fact very aware of differences of register and variety. They watch TV. (As a side issue, I believe every six year old in this country knows what standard English is from listening to TV. TV has to use standard English, and it can be valuable tool for teachers.) They know, for example, that newscasters and sportscasters use they language in a particular way, and many of them can imitate this. Might this not be a way to approach the need to expand one's repertoire of language varieties? Well, this is a lot longer than I intended. Janet Castilleja Heritage college Toppenish WA