I am willing to surrender to Martha and Max on the F word--what I am curious
about is when For can be a coordinate conjunction and not mean because--and
I guess I am further curious about why a coordinate conjunction could not
mean Because.  Was For always listed erroneously as a coordinate
conjunction? Is there some historical reason for calling it coordinate?  I
have always noted too that it does not coordinate except at the independent
clause level--which makes it different.  But since it is not like other
subordinators entirely either, how do we decide which it is?

Edith


> ----------
> From:         Martha Kolln[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To:     Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> Sent:         Saturday, July 03, 1999 6:04 AM
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> Subject:      Re: Another Grammatical Question
> 
> >That's a great sentence, Ed!
> 
> I think that both Max and Edith have the right idea about the AS clause:
> It does have a "sentence modifier" (or, in this case, relative clause
> modifier) flavor.  I'd hesitate to call it an "adverb" (or adverbial)
> clause--but "clause of attendant circumstance" certainly fits.
> 
> I disagree with Edith's identification of "for" as a coordinating
> conjunction.  (In fact, I disagree with "fanboy" as a useful acronym!)
> That particular F-word nearly always has more subordinating qualities than
> coordinating ones, especially here, where there is a clear "because"
> meaning--that is, the "for" clause explains the reason for the many
> hotels.
> While Quirk et. al. in their "Comprehensive Grammar" put "for" in the iffy
> category, they clearly label it as a subordinator.  The other five words
> represented by "fanboy"--the "anboy" bunch--are all capable of connecting
> structures smaller than clauses; "for" is not.  That argument is offset,
> to
> be sure, by the fact that the "for" clause cannot open the sentence as
> other subordinate clauses can.  In this case, however, I think the
> semantic
> argument is a strong one.
> 
> See you all at ATEG, I hope!
> 
> Martha
> 
>      I have been putting a grammar course on-line, with answer keys, and
> I'm wondering how members of ATEG would explain "as many travelers will
> remember" in the following sentence from the opening paragraph of James'
> "Daisy Miller":
> >
> >There are, indeed, many hotels, for the entertainment of tourists is the
> >business of  the place, which, as many travelers will remember, is seated
> upon
> >the edge of a remarkably blue lake--a lake that it behooves every tourist
> to
> >visit.
> >
> >You might also want to comment on the function of the "for" clause. I
> will
> >probably include some of your comments as notes Ø disagreements :) Ø to
> my
> >explanation.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Ed
>