I am willing to surrender to Martha and Max on the F word--what I am curious about is when For can be a coordinate conjunction and not mean because--and I guess I am further curious about why a coordinate conjunction could not mean Because. Was For always listed erroneously as a coordinate conjunction? Is there some historical reason for calling it coordinate? I have always noted too that it does not coordinate except at the independent clause level--which makes it different. But since it is not like other subordinators entirely either, how do we decide which it is? Edith > ---------- > From: Martha Kolln[SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > Sent: Saturday, July 03, 1999 6:04 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Another Grammatical Question > > >That's a great sentence, Ed! > > I think that both Max and Edith have the right idea about the AS clause: > It does have a "sentence modifier" (or, in this case, relative clause > modifier) flavor. I'd hesitate to call it an "adverb" (or adverbial) > clause--but "clause of attendant circumstance" certainly fits. > > I disagree with Edith's identification of "for" as a coordinating > conjunction. (In fact, I disagree with "fanboy" as a useful acronym!) > That particular F-word nearly always has more subordinating qualities than > coordinating ones, especially here, where there is a clear "because" > meaning--that is, the "for" clause explains the reason for the many > hotels. > While Quirk et. al. in their "Comprehensive Grammar" put "for" in the iffy > category, they clearly label it as a subordinator. The other five words > represented by "fanboy"--the "anboy" bunch--are all capable of connecting > structures smaller than clauses; "for" is not. That argument is offset, > to > be sure, by the fact that the "for" clause cannot open the sentence as > other subordinate clauses can. In this case, however, I think the > semantic > argument is a strong one. > > See you all at ATEG, I hope! > > Martha > > I have been putting a grammar course on-line, with answer keys, and > I'm wondering how members of ATEG would explain "as many travelers will > remember" in the following sentence from the opening paragraph of James' > "Daisy Miller": > > > >There are, indeed, many hotels, for the entertainment of tourists is the > >business of the place, which, as many travelers will remember, is seated > upon > >the edge of a remarkably blue lake--a lake that it behooves every tourist > to > >visit. > > > >You might also want to comment on the function of the "for" clause. I > will > >probably include some of your comments as notes Ø disagreements :) Ø to > my > >explanation. > > > >Thanks, > >Ed >