Dear Cathy Holmes, You raise several interesting questions here, most of them already much debated on this list. One is the problem of what you mean when you say that someone was attempting to pound "grammar rules" into your head. If you mean that you were being taught formal grammar of the nouns-and-pronouns ilk, that probably never improved anyone's writing. If you mean the rules of correct usage, punctuation, capitalization, and so on, that probably didn't do much good either, although it had a better chance than the grammar. Another issue is what you mean by better writing. Many teachers mean writing that is more correct rather than more complete, more logical, more graceful, more organized, and/or more perceptive. One sometimes gets the impression that a lot of teachers would be perfectly happy with correct writing that has little content. One also gets the impression that some teachers of the process approach would be happy with writing that has great content but many errors. And, of course, given the slim chance one has of being able to teach correct writing, settling for better content does have its appeal. Then there is your claim that "today's process-driven composition," in your opinion, "is not producing any better writers than those of my generation." Now there's a real can of worms, starting with the possibility that your opinion might be based on very little evidence. If so, it doesn't mean that you're wrong, just that you can't honestly claim to know whether you're right or wrong. Then there's the question of whether "process-driven composition" really exists today in any substantial amount. Just because everybody's talking about the process approach doesn't mean that everybody is doing it. I've observed a lot of certified teachers and supervised a lot of student teachers who were teaching a curriculum assigned to them. There was virtually no process-driven composition being done. A few THOUGHT they were doing the process approach because they had students write a rough draft one day and "revise" the draft the next day and hand it in. Revision nearly always mean correcting the errors. Two drafts does not make a process approach. The process approach is like most educational reforms. (1) The term means different things to different teachers. This allows all of us to say we are doing it while at the same time doing something very different. (2) Seldom do you find anyone who has worked out how to use the process approach successfully having the chance to teach the method to other teachers. (3) Typically, the administration brings in an "expert" for a one-shot workshop, leaving the teachers to implement the method on their own (or not). (4) No one bothers to define what is meant by "better writing" or to prove that this or that method leads to better writing. Finally, the process approach is only a METHOD of teaching. The CONTENT of the curriculum, rhetorical theory, is usually taken for granted. That is, few of us are taught what the features of the various kinds of essay should be. That may be the biggest mistake of all. Bill McCleary >Greetings, > >I am a senior English major at the Univ. of Washington. Although my >academic emphasis is on writing, I am also taking composition classes >for the a secondary teaching minor. I graduated in 1972 from a small >rural high school and can remember a 5th grade teacher and a >college-prep English teacher pounding (or attempting to) grammar rules >into my head. > >As both a composition process student and the parent of a 20 yr-old, I >find myself struggling between two schools of thought: (1) the old >1960s "you're going to learn "good" grammar and use it or else!" >methodology; and (2) today's process-driven composition, which, in my >opinion, is not producing any better writers than those of my >generation. > >Any thoughts and/or feedback on this subject would be very helpful to >me. > >Thank you kindly, > >Cathy Holmes >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com William J. McCleary 3247 Bronson Hill Road Livonia, NY 14487 716-346-6859