In all of these sentences, the dependent clause is modifying the entire sentence, not a single word. I have called them relative clauses that modify the entire independent clause, but I suppose that one could call them something else. > ---------- > From: Michael Kischner[SMTP:[log in to unmask]] > Reply To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 1999 5:58 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Difference between "as" and "which" > > To reply to my own message -- does the fact that most of the "as" clauses > in the original example can be moved to a position before the main clause > signify that they are something other than relative clauses -- more > adverbial in nature? Not that this would have any necessary effect on > whether they sound natural or unnatural with a "not." > > On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Michael Kischner wrote: > > > I think you're on to something Rebecca. Good sleuthing! I note, too, > > that the "as" clauses can all be placed before the main clause -- except > > for1b, which sounds even more unnatural in that position than it does > > following the main clause. > > > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, rebecca s. wheeler wrote: > > > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > Regarding the example 1b which sounds bad..., > > > > > > > > > 1-a. You carried the luggage yourself, which was not necessary. > > > > > 1-b. You carried the luggage yourself, as was not necessary. > > > > > 2-a. He is a foreigner, which is evident from his accent. > > > > > 2-b. He is a foreigner, as is evident from his accent. > > > > > 3-a. Her feet were bare, which was the custom in those days. > > > > > 3-b. Her feet were bare, as was the custom in those days. > > > > > 4-a. She has married again, which was natural. > > > > > 4-b. She has married again, as was natural. > > > > > 5-a. Tom was not at home, which is often the case with him. > > > > > 5-b. Tom was not at home, as is often the case with him. > > > > > > > > > > > > I note a difference between example 1, and the others which may be > relevant. > > > > > > Note that the first which/as clauses have "not" inside them. None of > > > the others do. Indeed, if we take out the "not", 1b becomes just fine: > > > > > > 1b: You carried the luggage yourself, as was necessary. > > > > > > I THINK that's fine. > > > > > > So, something is going on with the "not" element. Question is what. > > > > > > Notice, > > > > > > 2a. He is a foreigner, which is not evident from his accent. > > > 2b. He is a foreigner, as is not evident from his accent. > > > > > > While 2a may sound a nudge odd, 2b is flat out bad, I think. What I > > > SUSPECT is happening is that "as" functions to join clauses which are > > > alike in meaning in some significant way. That is, like "and", "as" > > > signals commonality or affirmation. But when you bring in a "not", it > > > seems that there is a clash with "as". > > > > > > Notice, > > > 2c. He is happy, as we can all see. > > > 2d. He is happy, as we can not all see. > > > > > > The contrast of final clause with first clause becomes fine if we put > > > an explicit contrast word in. > > > > > > 2e. He is a foreigner, although it's not evident from his accent. > > > > > > There's surely more to the story, as seen in 2f. Here, there is no > > > explicit connecting word (e.g. which, although, as), and the "not" is > > > perfectly good. > > > > > > 2f. He is a foreigner, a fact not evident from his accent. > > > > > > So, I think that the problem has arisen in the original sentence 1b > > > because "as" signals a "continuation" in some sense of the meaning of > > > the first clause, but then the "not" signals a clash. > > > > > > so, whatch'all think? > > > > > > cheers! > > > > > > rebecca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > > Rebecca S. Wheeler, Ph.D. > > > Assistant Professor of English > > > Department of English phone: (757) 594-8891 > > > 50 Shoe Lane fax: (757) 594-8870 > > > Christopher Newport University email: [log in to unmask] > > > Newport News, VA 23606-2998 > > > > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > > > >