Ed raises a good question: what kind of writing do we want our students to do 'effectively'? I would say every kind, from personal letters to short stories to expository texts of various genres. In spite of the popular approach of teaching 'comparison & contrast' vs. 'process' etc., I find that actual formal writing varies pretty widely. Business texts, material in magazines and newspapers, books ... there is great variety out there, much of which does not conform to these rhetorical categories. I quote below Objective A of ATEG's 3S committee's 4 global objectives: "A Every student, from every background, will leave school with the ability to communicate comfortably in standard English, and the ability to write comfortably in formal standard English, with awareness of when use of the standard dialect is appropriate." This is a broad statement, targeting students' overall mastery of standard English. Does 'comfortably' mean 'effectively'? Not necessarily! 'Comfortably' focuses on the writer's experience, not the reader's. But 'effective' writing is certainly our goal. Writing is effective when it does want the writer wants it to do -- conveys the intended information coherently, at the minimum, and with style, at the maximum. Perhaps we should replace 'comfortably' with 'clearly', or include both. I think it is very important to emphasize comfort level. It implies a level of fluency that cannot be attained except through acquisition (not by learning rules explicitly and then trying to monitor for their application in use). Grammar as we approach it today has a relatively narrow focus. Teachers want to use it to improve students' abilities to produce the kinds of texts that school will demand of them, with the idea that the 'real' world will demand similar kinds of texts. So the focus is on correctness and 'effectiveness' in writing, especially, I think, expository writing. My vision, and I think that of some other 3S committee members, is broader. The reason we want to re-examine and reformulate the whole curriculum, K-12, is to achieve a broader goal for what grammar instruction will be useful for. Grammar instruction, if it begins at the appropriately early age and continues _consistently_ and in step with children's developmental stages, will develop language awareness in children. Mainly, it will equip them with the terminology and analytical skills they can use to understand, evaluate, and improve every kind of writing they do, from poems to business reports. In fact, I get a sense that on this list there is somewhat of a divide between people with the narrower focus and people with the broader focus. Not that this causes disagreement, but I think we do talk at cross-purposes sometimes. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Johanna Rubba Assistant Professor, Linguistics English Department, California Polytechnic State University One Grand Avenue • San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 Tel. (805)-756-2184 • Fax: (805)-756-6374 • Dept. Phone. 756-259 • E-mail: [log in to unmask] • Home page: http://www.calpoly.edu/~jrubba ** "Understanding is a lot like sex; it's got a practical purpose, but that's not why people do it normally" - Frank Oppenheimer ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~