Hi Dave,

Like all fields of study, I suspect, alcohol studies have an embarrassment
of riches when it comes to insider knowledge.  The interesting questions may
be:  How much does that knowledge differ from one field member to another?
How much does that knowledge, fully illuminated, actually affect or
transform the outsider's view of the field's products?  BTW, I regarded much
of my dissertation as a voyage into the insider knowledge of the time.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Alcohol and Drugs History Society [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Dave Trippel
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 9:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Jellinek's troubled c.v.

I was not taking the subject full circle into the anonymous poster's claims
on AA tenet validity as you seem to suspect. I was simply using the example
of 12 step membership biasing alcohol studies/research in this thread's
context of Jellinek's apparent failings and Ron's mention of the "insider
knowledge" barrier.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick B" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: Jellinek's troubled c.v.


> Here's a scholarly statement from the enclosed: "Just like most of AA's
> tenets, Jellinek's work has no validity whatsoever." Wow what a dramatic
> exposition of the problem. Come on now! Is the subject fudging? Is the
> subject fraud? Is the subject Jellinek? Is the subject A.A.'s tenets? Has
> the subject somehow now become the equating of Jellinek's work with "AA's
> tenets." Time to move on or get clear about the subject. Dick B.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alcohol and Drugs History Society [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
> Behalf Of Robin Room
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Jellinek's troubled c.v.
>
> Dave --
>    Actually, long before Ron got into questions of J's biography, he
> published a piece demonstrating pretty clearly that Jellinek fudged the
data
> in deriving the Jellinek formula.  ROIZEN-R; MILKES-J.  THE STRANGE CASE
OF
> THE JELLINEK FORMULA'S SEX RATIO. J. STUD. ALC., 41: 682-692, 1980.
>       Robin
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Alcohol and Drugs History Society on behalf of Dave Trippel
> Sent: Mon 27/03/2006 12:53 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Jellinek's troubled c.v.
>
>
> I wonder how often this sort of censorship takes place in a way that may
> influence the evolution of an academic field - beyond the obvious example
of
> alcohol researchers' twelve step membership likely "remain[ing] inside the
> protected province of alcohol researchers".
>
> I also wonder if there's been an unbiased study of any biasing influence
of
> AA members upon alcohol studies/research, if such a thing is possible.
>
> In the case of Jellinek, the time lapse between the infraction (or even
his
> death) and its discovery/outing (declassification) has been long enough to
> overcome any and all criticism of whistle blowing. I guess the question
is,
> if he lied about that, could he have fudged some data.
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Roizen <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:00 AM
> Subject: Jellinek's troubled c.v.
>
>
> ... should have remained inside the protected province of alcohol
> researchers, as a kind of "insider knowledge" that is not allowed to sully
a
> revered scientist in a field still struggling for scientific legitimacy.
>
> ...
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ron Roizen
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: Academic and Scholarly Discussion of Addiction Related Topics.
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of No Name Available
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 6:23 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Does any one know anything about this - AA works for a
> few people
>
>
>
> I wonder how many people who've heard of Jellinek found out that he
> was a fraud? He claimed to possess a PhD but in fact had attended college
> for less than a year.
>
>
>
> At the time he claimed to have been awarded his degree, all German
> and Austrian universities had excluded Jews (he was Jewish), and he
wouldn't
> have been permitted in their buildings, let alone awarded a degree.
>
> He later claimed that all records of his academic work had been
> destroyed in the war, and was able to advance his fraudelent career as a
> 'researcher'.
>
>
>
> His Jellinek Curve has nothing to do with the progression of
> alcoholism for most people, and his 5 types of alcoholics could have been
> described by any observant bartender or minister.
>
>
>
> Just like most of AA's tenets, Jellinek's work has no validity
> whatsoever.
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/23/06 5:44:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> I wonder how many of the folks who spout about
> alcoholism/alcohol dependence being a disease have ever read Jellinek's
> "Disease Concept of Alcoholism"?
>
>
>
> Fred
>
>
>
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