I was not taking the subject full circle into the anonymous poster's claims
on AA tenet validity as you seem to suspect. I was simply using the example
of 12 step membership biasing alcohol studies/research in this thread's
context of Jellinek's apparent failings and Ron's mention of the "insider
knowledge" barrier.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick B" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: Jellinek's troubled c.v.
> Here's a scholarly statement from the enclosed: "Just like most of AA's
> tenets, Jellinek's work has no validity whatsoever." Wow what a dramatic
> exposition of the problem. Come on now! Is the subject fudging? Is the
> subject fraud? Is the subject Jellinek? Is the subject A.A.'s tenets? Has
> the subject somehow now become the equating of Jellinek's work with "AA's
> tenets." Time to move on or get clear about the subject. Dick B.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alcohol and Drugs History Society [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
> Behalf Of Robin Room
> Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Jellinek's troubled c.v.
>
> Dave --
> Actually, long before Ron got into questions of J's biography, he
> published a piece demonstrating pretty clearly that Jellinek fudged the
data
> in deriving the Jellinek formula. ROIZEN-R; MILKES-J. THE STRANGE CASE
OF
> THE JELLINEK FORMULA'S SEX RATIO. J. STUD. ALC., 41: 682-692, 1980.
> Robin
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Alcohol and Drugs History Society on behalf of Dave Trippel
> Sent: Mon 27/03/2006 12:53 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Jellinek's troubled c.v.
>
>
> I wonder how often this sort of censorship takes place in a way that may
> influence the evolution of an academic field - beyond the obvious example
of
> alcohol researchers' twelve step membership likely "remain[ing] inside the
> protected province of alcohol researchers".
>
> I also wonder if there's been an unbiased study of any biasing influence
of
> AA members upon alcohol studies/research, if such a thing is possible.
>
> In the case of Jellinek, the time lapse between the infraction (or even
his
> death) and its discovery/outing (declassification) has been long enough to
> overcome any and all criticism of whistle blowing. I guess the question
is,
> if he lied about that, could he have fudged some data.
>
> Dave
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ron Roizen <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:00 AM
> Subject: Jellinek's troubled c.v.
>
>
> ... should have remained inside the protected province of alcohol
> researchers, as a kind of "insider knowledge" that is not allowed to sully
a
> revered scientist in a field still struggling for scientific legitimacy.
>
> ...
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ron Roizen
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: Academic and Scholarly Discussion of Addiction Related Topics.
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of No Name Available
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 6:23 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Does any one know anything about this - AA works for a
> few people
>
>
>
> I wonder how many people who've heard of Jellinek found out that he
> was a fraud? He claimed to possess a PhD but in fact had attended college
> for less than a year.
>
>
>
> At the time he claimed to have been awarded his degree, all German
> and Austrian universities had excluded Jews (he was Jewish), and he
wouldn't
> have been permitted in their buildings, let alone awarded a degree.
>
> He later claimed that all records of his academic work had been
> destroyed in the war, and was able to advance his fraudelent career as a
> 'researcher'.
>
>
>
> His Jellinek Curve has nothing to do with the progression of
> alcoholism for most people, and his 5 types of alcoholics could have been
> described by any observant bartender or minister.
>
>
>
> Just like most of AA's tenets, Jellinek's work has no validity
> whatsoever.
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/23/06 5:44:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> I wonder how many of the folks who spout about
> alcoholism/alcohol dependence being a disease have ever read Jellinek's
> "Disease Concept of Alcoholism"?
>
>
>
> Fred
>
>
>
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