Josh Meisel wrote: quoting I assume from Aries, Philippe. (1966) The World
of children. London: Hamlyn
> about morality emerging during late 19th c. that coincided with rise in
> protestant christianity
What did it arise from? Certainly not paganism or Catholicism. By this time
("late 19th c.") the "rise" had already taken place in Europe and had spread
to America through immigration. In the 19th century the concern in America
seems to have been the rising influence of Roman Catholicism. Protestant
"morality" was already firmly entrenched as the dominant Christian influence
in government as well as society at large. (With few exceptions in certain
States.) The almost universal concern at that time was the Roman Catholic
immigrants and them gaining more and more political power and influence.
No doubt "ideas of morality" were the underlying force in establishing legal
means to deal with "other peoples children", namely immigrants and other
rowdies but it was not a part of a corresponding "rise" in Protestantism.
Rather the "morality" that was already inculcated into the legal system of
many states was applied as an ever expanding social gospel gained momentum.
This momentum fostered may reforms and movements including the Temperance,
Sabbath Day and Suffrage movements.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joan McCord" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: youth and alcoholic beverages
You might find some interesting related material in: Hawes, Joseph M.
(1971).
Children in Urban Society. New York: Oxford University Press.
Josh Meisel wrote:
> Take a look at the following titles from Oxford University Press:
>
> Bernard, Thomas J. (1992) The cycle of juvenile justice New York: Oxford
> University Pres
> Feld, Barry C. (1999). Bad kids : race and the transformation of the
> juvenile court. New York: Oxford University Press.
>
> Both provide compelling accounts of how the "idea" of childhood has
> changed historically in Western societies. They are limited, though
> insofar as they exclude changing conceptions of childhood in Eastern,
> African, cultures...If anyone else has suggestions for cross-cultural
> study of evolution of "chidhood", I'd be grateful...
>
> Both Feld and Bernard draw heavily on the work of Philippe Aries:
>
> Aries, Philippe. (1966) The World of children. London: Hamlyn
>
> What becomes clear from these readings is that, at least in western
> societies, the idea of children evolved from viewing them as virtually
> nonexistant (in part because of very high infant mortality rates up until
> 16th c.), to little people (who participated in all of the behaviors and
> vices as adults), to the more "modern" conception of children as
> malleable, (unlike adults who are "set in their ways"). Of course these
> changes weren't simply determined by lower infant mortality rates and
> parents developing stronger attachments to children, but also by ideas
> about morality emerging during late 19th c. that coincided with rise in
> protestant christianity (e.g., notion of original sin) that suggested
> adults were beyond "salvation" and providing children with proper moral
> upbringing may help ensure eternal salvation...
>
> But children also became focus of "child savers", (see Platt, Anthony M.
> (1977). The child savers : the invention of delinquency. Chicago:
> University of Chicago Press) for a discussion of emergence of social work
> as a profession and juvenile court as an institution...Platt argues
> basically that juvenile court emerged as a tool to manage "other people's
> children" (e.g., immigrant and working class families) and has been a very
> destructive force in the lives of many children. Thus, according to Platt,
> conception of children evolved to reflect concerns of white Protestant
> middle and upper class rural (values orientation) population - this is of
> course, the same population that rallied around Temperance ideology...
>
> So, there does seem to be an intersection between rise in Temperance
> ideology and changing ideas of childhood. My apologies if I've rambled but
> this is one tangent of my dissertation research...
>
> Regards,
>
> Josh Meisel
>
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2001, David Fahey wrote:
>
> > The more I study alcohol history the more that I begin to realize the
> > extent of my ignorance. Perhaps ATHG subscribers can help me in regards
> > youth and alcoholic beverages. I assume that a large part of the
problem
> > is how a society defines childhood. For instance, in recent years in
the
> > USA, childhood has been both enlarged chronologically (university
students
> > are not expected to be as responsible for their actions as had people of
> > the same age a hundred years previously) and also narrowed (adult rights
in
> > voting and sexuality for teenagers). I assume too that the varying role
of
> > formal law in different societies is relevant, as is the kind of
alcoholic
> > beverages (for instance, wine or whiskey, low-alcohol beer or regular
beer,
> > etc.). And, of course, minimum legal ages for drinking seldom coincide
> > with practice. There are all sorts of other considerations, as for
> > example, religion (notably, Islam) and the role alcohol plays in social
> > rituals, etc. Any suggestions?
> >
> > David M. Fahey Miami University, Oxford, Ohio, USA <[log in to unmask]>
> >
>
> Josh Meisel
> Department of Sociology
> CB 327
> University of Colorado
> Boulder, CO 80309-0327
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