Dear Peter,

I, too, feel strongly that grammar is a worthy and important subject for
study. I suspect, from what he has written on these pages, that Bill
McCleary is of this same belief. I also see him as somewhat of a realist
regarding the subject.

In Bill's defense, I can only report on my experience in the mid-1990s as a
teacher of ESL to students from all over the world. Many of my students came
to America after having "studied English" in their home countries. In fact,
many of my students from Japan and from Russia had YEARS of English under
their belts. Their courses were almost entirely grammar-based. The results
were that they couldn't speak, or write English very well at all when they
arrived in America. We taught them grammar, reading, listening, speaking,
and composition - from this combination of courses, most of them were able
to learn enough English to enroll in an American university.

Grammar is vital, but it isn't enough. At least this is one man's opinion.

Paul E. Doniger
The Gilbert School
"Reason enslaves all whose minds are not strong enough to master her." - G.
B. Shaw

-----Original Message-----
From: Lunde, Peter <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thursday, January 06, 2000 1:40 PM
Subject: Grammar


>Amy,
>
>Mr. McCleary has been shooting down all responders who challenge his notion
>that "writing" and "grammar" are not connected. I am 56 years old. I come
>from a generation that was taught grammar from the first grade on. We
>diagrammed sentences, wrote essays, and broke those essays down into their
>parts of speech. This taught us the basic mechanics of language that clear
>away questions relating to proper part of speech usage and variation.
>
>Today it seems, anything that comes out of the mind of a student is termed
>"writing," or so it seems that McCleary wants it that way. He is entirely
in
>another territory here, and that place is called expository or creative
>writing, something completely different from the mechanics of writing, of
>which grammar is an important part.
>
>My wife is from Russia. She speaks and writes English so fluently that I am
>amazed she wasn't born here. How is it, you might ask, that someone from
>Russia who can speak and write English so well, outperforms many people
>here?  In Russia, when students learn English, they learn grammar right
next
>to the speaking part. And they learn it cold. She explained to me that
>without the grammar rules, she would not be able to speak and write so
>effectively.
>
>Does Mr. McCleary actually think that any great writer, like Lawrence or
>Conrad,  did not know their English grammar? That everyone is a born savant
>who instinctively writes? This is irresponsible claptrap and the product of
>university insulation from what is needed as opposed to the theory of what
>is needed. Stick to your guns and keep the grammar in. Try to bring
>diagramming back in, it works and students will remember what it teaches.
>
>Pete Lunde
>Technical Publications  RSM
>BMC Software  2100 City West  Houston TX  77042
>(713) 918-7321
>