Dear all,
Bob Yates wrote:


>         Actually it is not a good definition of a passive sentence. <

So what's our definition of the passive?
A working definition will vary according to  target group.We don't all
work as deep as University linguists although Grammar teachers should
also be conscious of this level.
My class don't get a definition until they've worked through some steps
and can form it.
So I tell my school kids we just have to use our brain a bit! In simple
cases of the passive what is logically the 'subject', as we know some
one person or more factors (agents: lovely word to play with...007!)
are behind this, just isn't 'important'.
>  this is the black board image for a sentence. Here are infinitive
options before I open my mouth and it also illustrates one aspect of the
impact of the words in their word order. (It's good for other
things,too). They know this from earlier lessons
So we pull up a logical object and make it a grammatical subject because
of it's 'importance' in the given situation. (We could be detectives
investigating a crime.) It stands to reason that we can't slap in the
verb normally or we'd confuse the situation so we need a marker which is
the appropriate form of to Be. There are markers in grammar  just like
in 'real life' , think of wash room doors or police cars.etc  and the
confusion when not marked. I'm sure you get the picture of how I do it

I use a lot of images with my school kids.For example , we have to learn
as much vocabulary as possible because the words are the bricks we want
to build our house with and we want to become architects, not just
hod-carriers.It's like money in the bank and helps us through life if we
use it correctly. We are then in a position not only to buy something
small easily but also something reall big if we want it!
Most kids like sports or the circus. After a little disussion they
realize we see the end product of a lot of practice and training behind
that feat. So we train our brain 'muscle' to see and  to use structures
consciouly which develops to insight.

Grammar illustrates the route we take to get where we're going. I want
to get from A to B let's take the 'Autobahn'. Are we going to take a
more leisurely walk but use some muscle? Sometimes it's an obstacle race
and we fall on our nose.The way we take, the grammar we use, depends on
the situation and the objective.
The scene of the Crime, At the Auctioneer's or a visit to the Tower of
London are ways to practice past participles and passive in a playful
situation for school kids
When all is done they verbalise their own rule in a sentence and reduce
it to a (sometimes funny) formula.
One 12 year old told me his 'reminder' was:
He's so passive is he dead?
No, he's in bed - be+ed
which was enough for him to get his test right!
I've even had
You mean the object in my head is the subject in B+ed
which caused roars of laughter in upper revision as it was said in all
innocence.
I now remember to pronounce it 'be plus ed' to avoid embarassment.

If we are a forum or Grammar Teachers, can't we get some 'good'
definitions for the passive formulated, together with our target group?
Logical Object -->Grammatical Subj. + BE + ED works for me.

Patsi
PS
I keep getting a lot of ' EEEK!Take me off this list' mails. Am I
frightening people off?