Gretchen,
     I totally disagree with Johanna. Middle school students should be able to identify prepositional phrases, subjects, finite verbs and complements, and clauses in texts typically written by middle school students. This is not at all an unreachable objective if we consider, for example, that students would have through grade 8 (or 9) to achieve it. Having met these objectives, students would be able to understand all the clause-boundary errors (comma-splices, run-ons, and fragments). Once they understand why these are "errors," they would also easily learn how to fix them. In addition, students could do a lot of work with style * the compounding and subordinating of clauses. They could also see for themselves how their own writing matches (or does not match) that of their peers.
    Primary school objectives raise an interesting problem. Within KISS, the formal objectives are prepositional phrases, subjects, finite verbs, and complements. Some fourth grade teachers have told me that they are required to teach clauses, but that many of their students simply cannot grasp the concept. The problem here may be the way in which the concepts are currently taught. Normally, they are not taught based on the students' ability to identify subjects / verbs / complements * they can't be taught that way because students are generally not taught how to identify all the subjects and verbs in their own writing. I'm struggling with this in the KISS framework. Some parents are reporting that their fourth graders can deal with clauses (using the KISS Approach), but the home schooling environment differs from the classroom. (For one, the students have to do the homework.) My guess is that fourth graders could deal with simple noun, adverbial, and adjectival clauses, but the fourth grade teachers are the experts here. Any standards that are not based on solid input from these teachers will fail.
Ed

P. S. Obviously, I've presented the KISS assessment objectives here, but as I have said before, no one else has even been looking at this question * Note Johanna's " TOUGH TOENAILS!!!"


>>> [log in to unmask] 04/18/05 7:05 PM >>>
Gretchen,

I don't mean to exclude the need for middle school students to learn
grammar as well. Measures are needed to address their needs, too. For
the moment, we have to acknowledge that there is a gap in grammar
knowledge at all levels, and all levels essentially have to begin at the
beginning. Right now we have kids in HS who have no grammar from middle
school. These are the kids I had in mind. I'm thinking triage: which
population do you go after first? Where is the least "catch-up time"
between school and the realities of post-HS graduation? The answer to
that is high school. So, if we have limited resources and time, it would
be strategic to start there. Then a program is in place for
middle-schoolers who don't get grammar there. If we start with middle
school, then the current cohorts in high school are left out in the cold.

Ideally, we would work with both middle and high school. But different
districts have different situations.

As for high-school teachers who are pointing fingers at teachers of
previous grades, they just have to wake up to the reality of the
situation. Both the curriculum and teacher education are faulty. If the
HS teachers have to teach basic grammar, TOUGH TOENAILS!!! So do I! And
I'm not pointing fingers at high-school teachers. I know the lay of the
land. Reality bites. But there it is.

***************************************************
Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics
English Department, Cal Poly State University
San Luis Obispo, CA 93407
Tel. 805-756-2184 ~ Dept. phone 805-756-2596
Dept. fax: 805-756-6374 ~  E-mail: [log in to unmask] 
URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba 
***************************************************

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