I would think that changing the sentence from "I did escape" to "I did
it" is a change from subject+ intransitive (subject + auxiliary + main
verb [intransitive]) to subject+ transitive (subject + main verb
[transitive] + direct object). Adding "it" to the first sentence, of
course, changes everything: "I did escape it" (subject + auxiliary +
main verb [transitive] + direct object.) However, the arguments that
assert, "I did[what]"-- escape (noun [direct object]) do make a strong
case and thereby bring the discussion back to an earlier one regarding
transitivity/ intransitivity.
Diane Skinner
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Eleanor Bloom <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> That's what I thought at first until I applied the pronoun test being
> discussed. What happens when you can substitute "it" for "escape" in
> the "I did escape" = "I did it"--does the sentence pattern actually
> change from subject+transitive verb to subject+intransitive verb?
> EJB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wollin, Edith
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:57 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Nouns - Elementary concept?
>
> I think that when "do" means something like "complete" as in,"I did the
> dishes." Or "I did the job" it does take a direct object, but in this
> case, it seems to be stretching the meaning a bit to see this as meaning
> "I completed the escape." It seems more likely to be functioning as an
> auxiliary that works something like an intensifier. Not just "I
> escaped," but " I did escape."--but not for long.
>
> Edith Wollin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eleanor Bloom
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:30 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Nouns - Elementary concept?
>
> In the case of the "I did escape, but my escape was short-lived,"
> wouldn't "escape" be the object of "did" and, therefore, a direct object
> and noun? [I did WHAT?--escape]
> EJB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of diane skinner
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Nouns - Elementary concept?
>
> All,
> Thank you for the discussion, the civility throughout the
> discourse, and the descriptions and suggestions for teaching nouns.
>
> John, when teaching 2nd graders, I like the idea of using visuals
> (the fruit) to explain the inflectional morpheme "s." But might it be
> possible that your suggestion of using pronoun substitutes to locate
> nouns could be misunderstood? For example, Craig wrote:
> "Or how about 'I did escape, but my escape was short-lived.' Is escape a
> noun in both instances? It passes the noun test, as do so many other
> words that are both nouns and verbs or nouns and adjectives."
> Substituting "it" for "escape" in the first instance ("I did [it]")
> could throw a curve ball into the mix, especially since "it" can be
> substituted for the word "escape" in both instances.
>
> Diane
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 2:29 AM, John Crow <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Hi Tabetha,
>>
>> I agree with John Alexander in that the way to teach nouns is to use a
>> functional or operational approach. To me, when teaching grammar, the
> best
>> approach is to build from what students already know, and to do so in
> a
>> manner that lets them discover the concept. Even 2nd graders would be
> able
>> to handle something like the following:
>>
>> Bring two each of the following to class: apple, grape, banana. Show
> the
>> students one apple and ask them what it is. Then show them both
> apples and
>> ask them again. Repeat with each fruit. Then ask them to tell you
> what
>> letter (or sound) they added when you changed from one to two. Now
> intro
>> the word "noun," telling them that "apple," "grape," and "banana" are
> all
>> nouns. Ask them what letter you can add to a noun if you need to.
> They
>> will say "s." Then ask them what they have discovered about nouns.
> They
>> will tell you that you can add "s" to it. Ask them what it means when
> you
>> add "s" and they will tell you. Then look at "foot." They will know,
> of
>> course, that you cannot have "foots." I'll skip the details and skip
> to the
>> main point: What you are trying to do is get them to "discover" that
> nouns
>> can normally be made plural, usually by adding "s". Once they grasp
> that
>> concept, they become noun-identifying geniuses. ("Is 'idea' a noun?
>> Sure--one idea, two ideas.") I think with 2nd graders I would stop
> there,
>> but you have to be prepared to deal with words like "chalk"--frames
> are OK
>> (the ___________), but proper nouns often do not fit. I prefer
> pronoun
>> substitution as a good test for nouns. (You can't say "the Texas" but
> Texas
>> is an "it.")
>>
>> Tying what you are trying to teach to what they already know (albeit
>> subconsciously) is much more effective than teaching a definition that
> they
>> memorize, but that does not connect.
>>
>> (If you use this with your pre-service class, for practice, ask them
> to come
>> up with an operational definition of a verb.)
>>
>> I agree with Craig: we have to fundamentally change the way teachers
> THINK
>> about grammar if we want our teaching to stick and to transfer to
>> real-language situations.
>>
>> John
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