I think it was Bruce who wondered if, whenever I ask a question on this list, it is a trick. The answer to that is no, but my real purpose is to reconfirm my belief that this group is not very helpful. I'm trying to catch up on the mail, so I copied and pasted the responses to my question into an html document. It's printing right now ― 19 pages worth. That is, more or less, what I expected, but then I read Teresa's question about the student who claims that grammar is "stupid." 
      At the risk of being thrown off this list, did anyone consider whom I had in mind when I named my approach to grammar "KISS"? What is a non-grammarian going to do with 19 pages of discussion of one relatively simple sentence? And don't forget that many of the responses are based on linguistic theories that are totally Greek to most parents and teachers. They would have to take at least one, if not more courses in that type of grammar before they could really begin to understand what some of the responders had to say.
       What I continue to find on this list is endless discussions of definitions and the explanations of specific, single sentences. It is no wonder that people such as Theresa's student find grammar to be stupid. The KISS Approach is probably not the best answer to the fundamental problem, but at least it addresses what K-college teachers (and parents) want to know, including the integration of grammar with writing, reading, and literature. See:
http://home.pct.edu/~evavra/kiss/wb/New.htm
Thanks for the responses,
Ed

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