Herb and Nancy -

As "wrong" as these rules are, they still can serve a purpose.  While 
clearly wrong, the "never use a passive voice" rule does provide a structure 
that novice writers can follow.  I'm not sure that teaching the passive 
voice, with all its strengths and weaknesses, is a worthwhile goal for 
beginning writers.  Similarly the "topic sentence" rule provides novice 
writers with structure as they struggle to compose.  Instead of the "grammar 
rules that aren't," how about a book that explains to teachers how and why 
the "non-rules" are supposed to help.  Sometimes I think we forget how 
difficult writing is for students who are not familiar with writing 
conventions, particularly the conventions of academic writing.

Geoff Layton


>From: "Stahlke, Herbert F.W." <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar              
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Myth "rules" (digression from historical present)
>Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 09:14:51 -0400
>
>A couple more such rules are "Never use passive voice" and "Put the
>topic sentence at the beginning of the paragraph."
>
>
>
>Maybe we could inveigle NCTE into publishing a book titled "Grammar
>rules that aren't"?
>
>
>
>Herb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nancy Tuten
>Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 7:25 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Myth "rules" (digression from historical present)
>
>
>
>When I read Phil's comment, I imagined that he had encountered a
>frustrated teacher deciding that if students wouldn't (appropriately)
>use the historical present tense, that at least he or she could insist
>that they stick to a single tense . . .
>
>
>
>I have thought about compiling a list of "rules" students internalize
>from teachers who are just trying to keep them from making a certain
>kind of mistake. Here are two examples:
>
>
>
>(1)  Teachers in middle school and high school who are trying to get
>their student writers to develop paragraphs more effectively will ask
>them to have a minimum of eight (or fill in the number of your choice)
>sentences in each paragraph. Students then come to college believing
>that every paragraph must include eight sentences.
>
>
>
>(2)  Because many young students create sentence fragments with
>"because" clauses, elementary and middle-school teachers will tell them
>never to start a sentence with "because." Then they come to college
>still believing that they should never start a sentence with "because."
>And the same logic applies to their belief that they should never start
>sentences with "and" or "but" or any of the coordinating conjunctions
>when we all know that professional writers do so all the time.
>
>
>
>Nancy
>
>
>
>
>
>Nancy L. Tuten, PhD
>
>Professor of English
>
>Director of the Writing-across-the-Curriculum Program
>
>Columbia College
>
>Columbia, South Carolina
>
>[log in to unmask]
>
>803-786-3706
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Cynthia Baird
>Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 10:44 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Literary present
>
>
>
>I have tried to follow this thread for the past several days, and I have
>appreciated the numerous suggestions that have been offered for
>something I, too, struggle with.  Countless times I have written on
>papers "discuss literature in the present tense"!  Sadly, I have no new
>teaching ideas to offer you, Paul.  I do know this--eventually students
>make progress.  I have the pleasure of "looping," meaning I teach
>students for two or more years in a row, and what I despaired of for my
>sophomores finally materializes in my seniors!
>
>
>
>I have not seen a response to Phil's comment that some time ago it was
>acceptable to write in either the present or past tense when discussing
>literature.  Could someone, preferably a college instructor since that
>is whom I prepare my students for, respond to this comment?
>
>
>
>thanks for all your professional insights on this listserve!
>
>
>
>
>
>"Paul E. Doniger" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>	Hello all,
>
>
>
>	I'm looking for advice: This year, many of my high school
>sophomores seem unable (unwilling?) to write about literature in the
>present tense. They discuss events in a novel, story, etc., only as past
>tense events. For example, a student wrote in one of his journals for
>Brave New World: "Bernard was with Lenina when he met John, the Savage."
>How can I get students to think in the present and write "Bernard is ...
>he meets" instead? Has anyone else struggled with this problem? I'm
>looking for teachable moments, here.
>
>
>
>	Thanks,
>
>
>
>	Paul
>
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