I'm certainly hoping that my statement is a "complaint about things
as they are now." I'm hoping that a good, sustained curriculum
lasting throughout one's schooling will make a difference.
However, I see two problems to begin with. One is that grammar may
turn out to be more like math than any content-type subject. Math,
especially beginning with algebra, is much taught and little learned.
Those who are researching this problem have had to come up with
special teaching techniques. If this possible similarity turns out to
be true, then we, too, will need special techniques. Without them, my
statement that "students can't seem to learn enough grammar to be
able to apply it" will seem more and more like "a statement of
general truth" in Johanna's words.
The second problem is coming up with a more teachable version of
grammar. We know that we don't want to continue with common school
grammar (Grammar 4). We need a more scientific grammar (Grammar 2),
but there are many scientific grammars, to my knowledge of all them
too complicated for our purposes. I don't know how much we are
relying on Ed's KISS approach to fill this gap, but I wish more
people were working on it.
Bill
>Bill McCleary writes "students can't seem
>to learn enough grammar to be able to apply it".
>
>I'm wondering why people believe this ... is it a complaint about
>things as they are now, or a statement of general truth? I suspect
>the former ... several of us on the list have stated a few times
>that one of our reasons for supporting a grammar curriculum that is
>good, thorough and lasts through all or most years of schooling is
>that such a curriculum is the most likely kind to make grammar so
>familiar to students that they _can_ apply it.
>
>It's unrealistic to expect students to become fluent with grammar
>through training only in a year or two of high school and/or a
>semester or two in college--especially if they are learning grammar
>through the traditional method, which has a lot of flaws.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Johanna Rubba Associate Professor, Linguistics
>English Department, California Polytechnic State University
>One Grand Avenue * San Luis Obispo, CA 93407
>Tel. (805)-756-2184 * Fax: (805)-756-6374 * Dept. Phone. 756-2596
>* E-mail: [log in to unmask] * Home page:
>http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--
William J. McCleary
Livonia, NY
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
|
