No, I did. But the last part of your message suggests that what
you suggested is a bit much for K-12 students. You did not suggest what
you would teach students in K-12. In the KISS approach, students would
have no trouble with "look up" "Up" would simply be consdiered as an
adverb. From my perspective, you are making grammar too technical, and
then saying that KISS won't be adequate because it does not address the
technical questions that you want to have addressed. But my question
still is What would you teach students in K-6 about, for example, verbs
and prepositions. If I understood you correctly, you are acknowledging
that KISS does present students with the constituency problem. Does "on"
form a constituent with the verb, or with the following "your hat." I
would suggest that, not only for third graders, but even for most
adults, that is the primary concern.
      And, once again I would suggest that unless we can develop a
basic, consistent approach to grammatical terminology, most teachers,
students, and parents will never really care about discussions of, for
example, "intransitive prepositions." Most teachers hate grammar because
it is too confusing. If, however, we could develop a basic grammar that
would be less confusing and more meaningful, I don't think there would
be much problem in getting into the kinds of questions you discuss, even
perhaps in tenth grade. Currently, I do not see us, as a profession,
getting anywhere near that point because members of this list want to
discuss technical points and, it appears to me, object to simplified
presentations, even though those simplified presentations may be
essential groundwork for understanding the more complex issues. Again, I
may be wrong. But the question is, if not the KISS Approach, then what
would you teach?

Ed


>>> [log in to unmask] 01/13/04 03:19PM >>>
Edward Vavra wrote:


>      I would suggest that the discussion between Herb and Karl may
help me explain my position to Kirsten. Herb and Karl have different
views of how to explain "on" in "put on." In itself, that does not
bother me, but I do think that they both should address the question of
what should be taught to primary and middle school students.

Perhaps you didn't read the last part of my message.

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