ATEG Archives

May 2007

ATEG@LISTSERV.MIAMIOH.EDU

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Phil Bralich <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 30 May 2007 13:45:28 -0700
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (74 lines)
There is a simple way out on this one.  If the before and after relation is important you MUST use the past perfect in the earlier time.  However, if the before after relation is not important, you would more likely say, "he was finished with his homework when he arrived."  The "by"-phrase with a past is also used as a part of the singal for the Past Perfect(before)and Simple Past (after) relation.  

If you don't focus on before and after they kind of mesh together.  

-----Original Message-----
>From: Janet Castilleja <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: May 30, 2007 12:38 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Verb construction
>
>I was working with a group of ESL students discussing complex verb 
>phrases.  We discussed this sentence: "He had finished with his homework by 
>the time he arrived."  One of the students asked whether it would be 
>acceptable to say "He was finished with his homework by the time he 
>arrived."  I said it would be, but to my chagrin, I could not explain the 
>verb phrase.  I sent query below to [log in to unmask]
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
>Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 8:00 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: QUESTION FOR THE GRAMMARIAN 
>
>
>From: [log in to unmask] 
>     Subject: passives, phrasal verbs
>     Message:  I was recently confronted with this sentence: He was 
>finished with his home work by the time he arrived.  Problem: Although the 
>construction is BE + Past participle, this doesn't appear to be either a 
>passive or a linking verb plus adjective.  Additionally, I suspect that the 
>main verb is phrasal: finish with.  Most uses of this construction seem 
>pretty straightforward: He will finish with his studies in June; he had 
>finished with his studies by the time I knew him, etc.  I'm just not sure 
>how to analyze the 'was finished with' construction. Now I'm wondering 
>if 'to be finished with' is verbal idom. What am I missing?  Thanks  Janet 
>Castilleja 
>
> And I got this reply:
>
>Here is a list of phrasal verbs. "Finish with" is not part of it, as you 
>can see. As for analyzing that particular sentence fragment, I think it's 
>just the imperfect tense. Hope this helps.
>	Athena Sargent
>	http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/phrasals.htm
>
>'Finish with' is listed as a phrasal verb in Phrasal Verbs (Courtney, 1983, 
>Longman), but with not quite the same meaning.  I already knew this when I 
>sent the question to grammar_q.  I had also spent some time with Quirk, 
>Leech, Greenbaum and Svartik as well as the Oxford and Cambridge grammars 
>without coming up with a satisfactory explanation - false passive? 
>idiomatic phrasal verb?
>
>Most of the resources I've looked at don't even seem to acknowledge an 
>imperfect 'tense' in English, although I've found some interesting 
>discusions of 'imperfective' vs 'perfective.'
>
>What are your thoughts?  This is currently occupying way too much of my 
>time.
>
>
>Janet Castilleja
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

ATOM RSS1 RSS2