I wish I were as sanguine as Bill is.  Unfortunately, I have every
reason to believe the kid is being quite accurate.  My experience is
that misidentifying an of-phrase as passive voice is only one
end-admittedly, possibly the more egregious end-of a continuum.

I teach a couple of "the English language for potential English
teachers" courses. Inevitably, while I am engaged in this process,
several students will come into my office hours to have the comments
on paper they've written for other courses  "translated." These are
upper-division English courses, and, on this campus, every one of
them is taught by a Ph.D. in English.  (I'm in Linguistics.  Maybe
that's why they feel safe in asking.) And I cannot tell you the
howlers I've seen.  I've seen "dangling modifier" written next to
everything from a faulty word choice to a preposed modifier that
violates the "given-new convention."  I've also seen it written next
to sentences that were grammatically impeccable.  All I could
conclude is that the person doing the marking had not the faintest
idea about what a dangling modifier actually is.

Now, I am the first to admit that what we say to students is not
necessarily what they hear.  But I have seen really ghastly
misapprehensions about sentence structure *in writing*.

So my question stands:  is this degree of grammatical innocence now
normal among composition and literature teachers?  Or have I just
happened on an unusual group?

Kathleen Ward






>As a teacher of advanced composition, I hope that you don't take the
>students' word as gospel. I think we would shudder at how often our words
>of wisdom are misquoted. If we use a book like Williams' Ten Lessons in
>Clarity and Grace, we would be exposing students to the message that
>by-phrases are a mark of the passive voice. Combine this note with the
>general advice (much qualified in Williams' case) not to use the passive,
>and you get the advice never to use prepositional phrases because they mean
>that you are using the passive.
>
>Bill
>
>  >Kathleen, I have just joined your group. The author of the text I use
>  >recommended that I join. This is exactly what I have run into many times.
>  >In the last few years, I have been teaching groups of working adults in
>  >night classes at community college. They are trying to improve their
>  >business writing, but are often very confused by such messages from people
>  >whom they assume are knowledgeable. Thank you for the example.
>  >
>  >"Kathleen M. Ward" wrote:
>  >
>  >> In my afternoon class today, I was trying to explain to my History of
>  >>English students how the "of-genitive" was used in Middle English. Okay,
>  >>okay, I know--it isn't what they want to hear before a long weekend.
>  >>
>  >> Anyway, I was using some lame example, like
>  >>
>  >> the daughter of the king
>  >>
>  >> when one of my students piped up with, "but my advanced composition
>  >>professor told me we should never use those 'of' phrases, because they
>  >>were passive voice."
>  >>
>  >> I reeled.
>  >>
>  >> Folks, the advanced comp. teacher is a Ph.D. in English at a Research 1
>  >>university.
>  >>
>  >> I have no reason to doubt the kid's word (or the word of the kid)
>  >>because I regularly see this sort of thing in the corrected (by members
>  >>of the English department) papers that students bring to me for
>  >>translation. These are papers marked with a singular lack of knowledge of
>  >>grammatical terminology, and, I might note, a complete lack of
>  >>consistency.
>  >>
>  >> Why am I bringing this up? Well, first, I need to vent. Second, the
>  >>advanced composition program has come in for a huge amount of criticism
>  >>on this science-oriented campus, mostly because it does not seem to be
>  >>teaching the students who go through it much about sentence structure.
>  >>And, obviously, the teachers themselves don't know much about sentence
>  >>structure (other than "what sounds right") and cannot convey it to their
>  >>students (to whom very little "sounds wrong").
>  >>
>  >> I haven't taught comp for a long time now, but is this lack of facility
>  >>among composition teachers now usual?
>  >>
>  >> Kathleen Ward
>  >> Linguistics
>  >> University of California, Davis
>
>
>William J. McCleary
>3247 Bronson Hill Road
>Livonia, NY 14487
>716-346-6859