Scott,
Here are my ideas on the challenge. The portion of the sentence in quotation marks is a projection serving as a noun clause object of "said." I think it was someone from ATEG that suggested that projections need a special treatment different from other noun clauses. There are many natural uses of fragments such as "yes," "perhaps," etc. in this way. R&K would put projections on stilts. The phrase itself in the context from which it was taken, of course, serves as a an adverbial complement to the comparative of an adjective. If this were to be preserved in an R&K diagram, I would be inclined to separate it with a dashed support to indicate its fragmental semantic non-connectivity.
Bruce
--- [log in to unmask] wrote:
From: Scott Carledge <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 25 May 2012 to 26 May 2012 (#2012-52)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:34:50 -0400
I find the sentence not only awkward but ungrammatical--anyone care to try a
Reed & Kellogg diagram on this one?
I would have said "than he is normally considered to be."
Scott Catledge
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 12:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ATEG Digest - 25 May 2012 to 26 May 2012 (#2012-52)
There is 1 message totalling 170 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Frequency adverbs in implicitly negative comparisons
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Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 21:17:25 -0400
From: "Stahlke, Herbert" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Frequency adverbs in implicitly negative comparisons
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Dick,
I find ever/usually/sometimes ok, but I can't get "rarely" or "never" in th=
at context. There has to be an assumption on the part of the speaker that =
he almost never gets credit, as your paraphrase indicates. You might pass =
this example on to ADS-L. Arnold Zwicky or Larry Horn might have something=
interesting to say about it.
Herb
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Dick Veit
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 5:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Frequency adverbs in implicitly negative comparisons
Would anyone care to comment on the use of the frequency adverbial "nearly =
always" in the following quotation (from a Mt. Vernon curator, speaking of =
George Washington, quoted in Bill Bryson's At Home, p. 302)?
"He was a much, much better architect than he is nearly always given credit=
for."
The sentence is no doubt clear and idiomatic (I think so--does anyone disag=
ree?), but the adverbial arrested my attention. The comparison might be cal=
led "implicitly negative" in that it lacks an overtly negative word like "n=
ot" or "never." We could recast it with an explicit negative: "He is almost=
never given credit for being as good an architect as he was." The credit h=
appens rarely, but in the implicitly negative version, we use an adverb of =
high frequency to signify that rarity.
Here are five frequency adverbs arranged on a sliding scale: ever, usually,=
sometimes, rarely, never. How many of these could replace "nearly always" =
in the quotation? "Usually" for sure. "Never" certainly not. "Ever" and "so=
metimes"?
Dick
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dick,<o:p=
></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span
>style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","=
sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I find ever/usually/sometimes ok, but I can̵=
7;t get “rarely” or “never” in that context. =
There has to be an assumption on the part of the speaker that he almost nev=
er gets credit, as your paraphrase indicates. You might pass this exa=
mple on to ADS-L. Arnold Zwicky or Larry Horn might have something in=
teresting to say about it.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span
>style=3D'font-size:=
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Herb<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span
pan>style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"C=
alibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><b><span
MsoNormal>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-ser=
if"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","=
sans-serif"'> Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:ATEG@LIS=
TSERV.MUOHIO.EDU] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dick Veit<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, May=
25, 2012 5:14 PM<br><b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br><b>Subject:</b>=
Frequency adverbs in implicitly negative comparisons<o:p></o:p></span></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Would anyone=
care to comment on the use of the frequency adverbial "nearly always&=
quot; in the following quotation (from a Mt. Vernon curator, speaking of Ge=
orge Washington, quoted in Bill Bryson's <i>At Home</i>, p. 302)?<br><br>&q=
uot;He was a much, much better architect than he is nearly always given cre=
dit for."<br><br>The sentence is no doubt clear and idiomatic (I think=
so--does anyone disagree?), but the adverbial arrested my attention. The c=
omparison might be called "implicitly negative" in that it lacks =
an overtly negative word like "not" or "never." We coul=
d recast it with an explicit negative: "He is almost never given credi=
t for being as good an architect as he was." The credit happens rarely=
, but in the implicitly negative version, we use an adverb of <i>high </i>f=
requency to signify that rarity.<br><br>Here are five frequency adverbs arr=
anged on a sliding scale: ever, usually, sometimes, rarely, never. How many=
of these could replace "nearly always" in the quotation? "U=
sually" for sure. "Never" certainly not. "Ever" an=
d "sometimes"?<br><br>Dick <br>To join or leave this LISTSERV lis=
t, please visit the list's web interface at: <a href=3D"http://listserv.muo=
hio.edu/archives/ateg.html">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</=
a> and select "Join or leave the list" <o:p></o:p></p><p>Visit
a> AT=
EG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/">http://ateg.org/</a> <o:p></o=
:p></p></div></body></html>= To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please
visit the list's web interface at:
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<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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End of ATEG Digest - 25 May 2012 to 26 May 2012 (#2012-52)
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