Thanks, Herb. That definition makes a lot of sense.
Another question: would an impressionistic spelling be considered eye
dialect if there's no social class judgement attached?
I'm thinking of a movie review I just read for _The Polar Express_.
The reviewer quotes Tom Hanks as the train conductor asking, "Well?
Y'comin?" Since the conductor character is the "wise mentor" of the
movie, and since the review was highly favorable, I don't think
disapproval was implied. However, after listening to the line pretty
carefully, I also don't think Hanks pronounces "you coming" any
differently than anyone else I know would.
(As it happens, my husband and I had a big debate about whether or not
the reviewer transcribed the line correctly, so we were BOTH listening
for it. I don't know what this says about the quality of our marital
conversations, but anyway . . . .)
Would we only call something "eye dialect" if we believe it involves
social class judgement--which I guess means primarily negative
judgement?
I'm asking because I think "eye dialect" is a really useful concept and
I want to make sure I "get it" before I start flinging the term around
with students and colleagues.
Beth
Beth Rapp Young
http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~byoung
University of Central Florida
From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years.
>>> [log in to unmask] 11/15/2004 11:47:53 AM >>>
Beth,
"Eye dialect" is a term for the impressionistic use of spelling to
give
the impression of a non-standard dialect. One of the frequent results
is spellings like "bin" for "been" and "wuz" for "was". Another is
the
use of "-in'" for "-ing", where this variation is socially
conditioned,
more common among men than among women, but used to some extent by
most
speakers of English. What counts is one's degree of formality at the
moment, not one's dialect or cultural background. I don't know of an
English speaker who doesn't pronounce these words in these ways, but
the
eye dialect spelling isn't after sound as much as it's after social
class judgments.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
Herb, does "eye dialect" mean deliberately changing spelling to
imitate
dialect? Or a particular method for changing the spelling?
(I find this entire thread to be very interesting.)
Beth
Beth Rapp Young
http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~byoung
University of Central Florida
From Promise to Prominence: Celebrating 40 Years.
>>> [log in to unmask] 11/15/2004 8:57:26 AM >>>
There's a reference to Oprah's reaction to Ebonics in Rosina
Lippi-Green's English with an Accent, pp. 193-197, where she describes
Oprah's stance on AAVE as "complex and conflicted". Her discussion is
perceptive and sensitive, and Oprah comes across more subtly than I
portrayed her in my posting.
The eye dialect examples you cite from Brown 2002 vary in how AAVE
they
appear. The first one, except for the "honey", could as well be a
white
urban New York dialect as AAVE, as could the second. There's lots
more
final consonant deletion in English, standard and non-standard, than
most people realize. And find me a person who doesn't pronounce
"husband" with a /z/. But that's the problem with eye dialect. The
last two examples are much more clearly AAVE. It's interesting, and I
do this in class sometimes, to compare eye dialect with well written
AAVE. I've use samples from Joel Chandler Harris and James Baldwin,
and
the ineffectiveness and stereotyping of eye dialect becomes pretty
obvious when laid alongside the speech of one of Baldwin's characters,
which is clearly BE with standard English spelling.
Herb
________________________________
That is very interesting Herb! I am betraying my own "greenness"
in
admitting this, but I was just embarking on my post-secondary
education
in the heat of the Ebonics issue, so I was not familiar with Oprah's
reaction. I am still interested in learning more about this -- while
she
may (perhaps?) be against African-American English being used in the
schools, there can be no argument that she employs AAE in her own
speech. I have always found her to be highly adept at "gliding"
between
AAE and Standard English in meaningful ways. I suspect that you are
right that she selectively avoids certain shibboleths such as /aks/.
(I
think it was Carl Lefevre who said "As a segregating device,
shibboleth
is very ancient, and as hateful as Cain.")
However, I have heard her use copula deletion, lots of consonant
cluster reduction, reduction of interdental fricatives, and even a
habitual be within the year. I heard the construction that led to this
thread as well -- something along the lines of "She asked me did I
go."
I would find it highly interesting and quizzical if it turned out that
Oprah spoke negatively of the AAE dialect in the recent past when it
is
obvious that she utilizes it in her own show.
As a side note, I think that the manner in which Oprah employs her
bi-dialectalism is in itself impressive -- there are so many
pragmatics
involved. For those interested, Dr. Antonio Brown has written a paper
on
the topic. It can be found at:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2838/is_2_36/ai_89872238
Below are some examples analyzed by Brown (2002) for their
pragmatic
effects; however, they are also full of AAE tokens at the phonological
and syntactical level.
Oprah: I saw it [Air Force One] an' lemme tell ya... da force was
definitely wit' him, honey.
Oprah: Wai' a minute. You never said to yo' huzban', "What did you say
to ma [mother]?"
Oprah: Y'all ain't ha' no AT&T cards o' nuthin' like that, huh?
Oprah: Wai' a minit, wai' a minit. Hol' up! Speak one at a time. This
is
not The Jerry Springer Show.
John E. Dews
University of Alabama
"Stahlke, Herbert F.W." <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
It's interesting to note that in the heat of the Ebonics
debate
seven years ago, Oprah took a distinctly and strongly anti-Ebonics
position, focusing on such shibboleths as "aks" for "ask". I suspect
that her AAVE tokens are chosen with some care and especially avoid
the
more stigmatized ones, like "aks", copula deletion, and habitual "be".
Herb
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf
of
John E. Dews
Sent: Sun 11/14/2004 4:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: this bugs me!
I work with many non-standard dialect students, and I hear
this
construction quite often. It is more prevalent in some language
variety
groups than others for sure. I find it an acceptable form in most
situations, but I would still consider it to be enough of a deviation
from the current standard to be ! taught to students trying to master
Standard English.
I have noticed that over the years Oprah has consistently used
certain linguistic features that mark her as a member of different
discourse communities (woman, African-American, etc) unashamedly, even
when they deviate from Standard. Given that one of her main "mantras"
is
empowering and valuing the differences that make us human, she doesn't
seem to back down from her language usage choices. In other words, I
wouldn't look to Oprah for a standard usage.
I, too, have surprisingly heard this construction on the
national news. Perhaps it's just me -- often when they use it, the
context/situation makes it sound less obtrusive. I don't know if that
makes sense, but sometimes when the news anchor says it, I don't think
I
would notice it if I wasn't the kind of person that always listens
closely to words. There may be more to the pragmatics of it than one
assumes.
John Dews
University of Alabama
Christine Gray wrote:
Herb and Don, thank you for your responses.
I know the problem, the sentence parts and functions, and the
correction.
My question is whether this error is becoming acceptable.
I've heard it on the national news and on Oprah.
Christen in Baltimore
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stahlke, Herbert
F.W.
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 2:47 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: this bugs me!
Paul has the translation right; it's a dialect variant of "She
asked me if I
had the book." This is a fairly well-studied feature of some
non-standard
dialects. Standard English allows subject-verb inversion only
in
main
clauses, as in "Do you have the book?" In indirect questions
SE
uses a
subordinating conjunction without inve! rsion. Non-standard
dialects, on the
other hand, invert in b! oth main and subordinate clauses.
This,
like the
prepositions problem, is something students have to master in
school if they
don't come to school with it and if they are to become
competent
in Standard
English.
Herb
________________________________
I wouldn't mind it if it were written like this:
"She asked me if I had the book." Nor would this bother me:
"She
asked me,
'Do you have the book?'." But the way your student wrote it is
definitely
ugly! It's actually incorrect, becuase she couldn't have
asked,
"Did I have
the book?" unless she wasn't sure of what she, herself, had.
I don't know that I'm being clear, here. The problem is
between
"I" versus
"you" in the question "she asked."
Paul E. Doniger
Christine Gray wrote:
Does this bother anyone on the list:
"She asked me did I have the book?"
Is this construction now accepted as being all right?
Chr! istine in Baltimore
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MA-TESOL Program
English Department
University of Alabama
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English Department
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