Craig:

If "there" in "Above the door there were lights" is not existential, 
then it is either referential or deictic. If it is not deictic, 
then "there" is the subject of the sentence, according to Celce-
Murcia (1999, 446-447. She suggests the question tag test for 
verification, as "question tags are made with the subject of a 
sentence."

There were lights above the door.

Question tag:

There were lights above the door, weren't there?


Eduard 



On Wed, 3 May 2006, Craig Hancock wrote...

>Phil,
>   I don't think this is an existential sentence. "Over the door were
>lights." We don't need the "there."  It does sound poetic, but not
>uncommon in context. "He had a beautiful door, and over the door were
>lights." When the subject is the new information, it's a natural 
move.
>   We also extrapose infinitives, also for emphasis:
>   It is easy to love you.
>   I find it easy to love you (extraposition in the predicate.)
>>  "To love you is easy gives" us a different emphasis.
>
>Craig
>
>
> These existential "there" sentences are not exactly for emphasis. 
They are
>> mandatorily used to state about the existence of subjects 
with "be".  You
>> cannot say the following at all
>>
>> lights were.
>> Lights are.
>> The light is.
>>
>> Sometimes the following is allowed but they are not at all typical 
and
>> sound almost poetical.
>>
>> Lights were on the car
>>
>> Something like the above indicates a previous reference or known 
lights
>> rather than an existential type of sentence.
>>
>> except as short answers to questions.  The existential meeting 
requires
>> the extraposed construction giving that wierd "empty subject" / 
true
>> subject structure of English, "There were lights on the car".  
German has
>> it as well with "es gibts" and it is used just a little bit less 
than in
>> English.
>>
>> Phil Bralich
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: May 3, 2006 8:58 AM
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: subject
>>>
>>>   Phil is right.  "lights" is sometimes called "extraposed 
subject" or
>>>"logical subject".  "There" stands in as a placemarker.
>>>   In this case, the extraposition is probably for emphasis, often
>>> because
>>>subject is new information.
>>>   "In the front of the house, they had added a new door. Above 
the door,
>>>there were lights." "Lights were above the door" wouldn't sound 
right
>>>as emphasis would be on given information, in the wrong place.>
>>>
>>>Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>"lights" is the true subject, but there are those who prefer to 
say that
>>>> "There" is an existential subject or before empty categories in 
syntax,
>>>> they were called empty subjects.  By mentioning both the true 
subject
>>>> and
>>>> the empty subject you get to satisfy your sense of pattern and
>>>> precision
>>>> as well as for meaning.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: ?????? <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: May 2, 2006 5:03 PM
>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>Subject: Re: subject
>>>>>
>>>>>on 06.5.3 8:51 AM, Rebecca Watson at [log in to unmask] 
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the subject of the following sentence:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Above the door, there were lights.
>>>>>The subject is "lights".
>>>>>
>>>>>Mitsuko
>>>>>
>>>>>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>>>> interface at:
>>>>>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>>>>>and select "Join or leave the list"
>>>>>
>>>>>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>>>
>>>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>>> interface
>>>> at:
>>>>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>>>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>>>
>>>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>> interface at:
>>>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>>>and select "Join or leave the list"
>>>
>>>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web 
interface
>> at:
>>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web 
interface at:
>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>and select "Join or leave the list"
>
>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/