Dick,
   I'm not sure I'm happy with the notion that transitivity is somehow set
with the verb and not construed within a clause.
   In "the pitcher throws hard", I can see why this might be intransitive
because it puts the behavior of throwing into focus, though someone
might argue that pitchers always throw baseballs, so it must be
transitive. (In your "I remembered" example, wouldn't it always imply
"I remembered things?" Would "he threw hard" be transitive after a game
because we understood that baseballs were being tossed? I would still
see it as intransitive because the throwing is what's in focus. We also
have "He threw the ball into the stands" (complex transitive, though
not one of Martha's patterns) and "He threw the umpire the ball"
(di-transitive) as natural construals. Wouldn't transitive,
intransitive, and so on be as much a characteristic of a clause as it
is of the verb itself?
   One reason for the differences would be different meanings for the same
verb, which is why the dictionaries tend to divide the meanings. But I
think we also have trhe ability to construe the same process in
different ways and bring a different kind of grammar (different
complements, different roles) into play.
   Of course, either approach requires more than simply classifying
sentences. Discourse context becomes very important.

Craig>

Tabetha,
>
> I was puzzled by one thing you wrote:
>
>  "I remember fondly" on the other hand is intransitive because
> "remember" is followed by an adverb.
>
> I have a hard time imagining an occasion where someone would say those
> words as a complete sentence, with no spoken or implied direct object.
> On the other hand, I can imagine someone saying, "Those were days I
> remember fondly," in which case remember is transitive, not
> intransitive.
>
> Even the two-word sentence "I remember" is not always intransitive.
> Here's an intransitive example:
>
> Q: How do you spend your days while in solitary confinement?
> A: I remember. [intransitive]
>
> On the other hand, here the same words are actually transitive, with an
> implied direct object:
>
> Q: Do you remember what you did last night after drinking six beers?
> A: I remember. [transitive]
>
> Perhaps I simply misinterpreted what you wrote and am telling you
> something you already know, in which case I (intransitively) apologize.
>
> Dick Veit
>
> ________________________________
> Richard Hussein Veit
> Department of English
> University of North Carolina Wilmington
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tabetha Bernstein-Danis
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 10:07 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Transitivity vs Intransitivity - The Linguists' Version of
> Hazing?
>
> Hello everyone. I am somewhat new on the listerv but have been lurking
> for
> awhile.  I teach a graduate level class on teaching grammar and usage to
> preservice secondary teachers.  Tonight I had my students engage in an
> activity that many found rather confusing. Their task was to pull
> sentences from their own writing and to classify them according to
> Martha
> Kolln's seven sentence patterns. We ran into some difficulty when trying
> to classify transitive and intransitive verbs. It seems that many
> students
> left the class more confused than enlightened, so I really want to
> revisit
> this concept to deepen their understanding and to help them think about
> how they might tackle transitivity with middle and high school students.
> The greatest difficulty involved verbs that can be either transitive or
> intransitve. "Remember" is an example of one of these words. In the
> sentence, "I remember", the verb is intransitive because it can stand
> alone. But if I say, "I remember my high school days", remember has
> become
> transitive because "my high school days" would be the direct object. "I
> remember fondly" on the other hand is intransitive because "remember" is
> followed by an adverb. However, some verbs are always transitive, such
> as
> "gave". So, at risk of further confusing my students, how might the
> members of this listserv suggest I go about further exploring this issue
> in class? This is a very short summer course, by the way, and will be
> over
> in just 4 more weeks. I just don't want my students to be left confused
> and to perhaps abandon teaching grammar altogether. After every class I
> have my students provide feedback and I think this student's response
> sums
> up the way many people feel about the ambiguity of grammar:
> "I don't feel that this lesson made anything more lucid, but I certainly
> understand why teaching grammar makes students hate grammar, but I
> realize
> it's probably the linguists' version of hazing."
> Any responses would be gladly appreciated.
>
> Tabetha Bernstein-Danis
> ________________________________
>
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