--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "We speak English ...
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 4:08 PM
> Peyman,
> Thank you for such a thoughtful and
> interesting post. I am constantly
> humbled by immigrants like yourself who are able to learn
> English and
> keep alive one or two other languages. I would hope that
> any teacher
> would honor the home culture of your children and treat
> them with
> dignity and respect--treat them as a source of knowledge,
> in fact, in
> the classroom. One of the most reprehensible parts of the
> Australian
> speech that Brad thought valuable to pass along was the
> notion that
> Australia is a Christian nation and, by implication, only
> Christians
> could be true Australians. Many of my Muslim students have
> spoken and
> written about feeling threatened, especially after 9/11, by
> people who
> beleive they should stop wearing what they are wearing or
> practising
> their faith. We need to remind ourselves constantly that we
> are a
> tolerant nation.
> I think the English Only Movement is not
> what it purports to be. Too
> often, it simply fans the flames of anti-immigrant
> sentiment.
> You mention the Armenian immigrant who is
> struggling to adapt to this
> culture and still keep her home culture alive:
> "she further goes into the never never
> land of never having an
> opportunity to honor her own language in her own house
> with her own
> culture and people because America is now all of a sudden
> requiring her
> to learn yet another European language instead practice her
> own
> indigenous language of Armenian."
> I believe those people who are the most
> reliable allies for helping her
> keep those traditions alive within her own family (and
> community) are
> the teachers who want to "honor the home culture" while
> still attending
> to the very real (and unsentimental) need to learn
> English.
> For many generations in America, it has
> been the grandparents who speak
> little English, the parents who are bilingual, and the
> grandchildren
> who feel a great sense of loss as they learn English and
> americanize.
> This is the pattern for my own students. It was the pattern
> in my own
> family on my mother's side and for my wife on both sides.
> America should be a place where languages
> other than English and
> alternative cultures (bilingualism and biculturalism)are
> encouraged and
> supported and respected, especially if we are to engage a
> complex
> modern world. My experience has been that treating students
> with
> dignity and respect, honoring what they bring when they
> come to school,
> is an important step toward welcoming them into full
> participation
> within America. It is not an either-or choice, and people
> who frame it
> that way are often anti-immigrant.
> I see absolutely no evidence that English
> is in danger. People who say
> so are not in touch with the facts.
>
> Craig
>
>
> --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Subject: Re: "We speak English ...
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 1:47 PM
> >> Brad: I like sugar in my
> >> tea.
> >>
> >> Bob & Craig: Brad fills his cup
> >> with sugar and then pours in the tea.
> >>
> >> Scheeesch.
> >>
> >> --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Robert Yates
> >> <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Robert Yates <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Subject: Re: "We speak English ...
> >> To: [log in to unmask]
> >> Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 1:15 PM
> >>
> >>
> >> As someone who is actually involved
> >> in having more people learn English as a second
> language (I
> >> teach non-native speakers of English and
> pre-service ESL
> >> teachers), Craig is absolutely correct.
> >>
> >> We are a country with a great numbers of
> different
> >> cultures. I have no idea how discussing those
> cultures
> >> impedes learning English.
> >>
> >> A lot of what Brad shared with us doesn't seem
> anything
> >> even a conservative in Australia would say. The
> US, unlike
> >> Australia, broke ties with UK early and rejected
> ever having
> >> a state religion. In fact, our constitution denies
> having
> >> any religious test for office. We have never
> >> recognized the President of a protector of any
> faith.
> >>
> >> I have had the good fortune of living in France
> for over
> >> two years. So, I was never "just" a
> >> tourist.
> >> I have never experienced the following:
> >>
> >> > In my travels in France, I have had a number
> of
> >> Frenchmen say to me, in
> >> > English, "Of
> >> course I speak English but you are in my
> country and we
> >> will
> >> > speak French", to which the only reasonable
> reply
> >> is, oui, bien sur --
> >> > yes, of course.
> >>
> >> No one ever made fun of how heavily accented and
> >> ungrammatical my French was. I was welcomed
> into
> >> people's homes and shared drinks with French
> wherever I
> >> went.
> >>
> >> Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri
> >>
> >>
> >> >>> Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
> >> 12/13/09 11:28 AM >>>
> >> Is there any evidence that "honoring
> >> other cultures in the classroom"
> >> impedes teaching English? My experience has been
> directly
> >> the
> >> opposite. Are there schools in the US that don't
> value
> >> English
> >> instruction? Does anyone on list know of such a
> school?
> >> We are a nation of immigrants and a
> >> nation built on separation
> >> of
> >> church and state, but we have always been a nation
> in
> >> which
> >> anti-immigrant sentiment has been used to divide
> us, often
> >> fanned for
> >> selfish political purposes.
> >> I hope we are all in favor of teaching
> >> languages other than English and
> >> in favor of respecting those languages when
> students bring
> >> them to
> >> school. It is nonsense to suggest that this is
> some sort of
> >> trade-off.
> >> I hope we can conduct our discussions on the basis
> of what
> >> is really
> >> happening and avoid divisive distortions.
> >>
> >> Craig
> >>
> >>
> >> What I hoped you'd see in the quote, regardless of
> its
> >> origin, is, "We
> >> > speak English, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic,
> Chinese,
> >> Japanese, Russian,
> >> > or any other language. If you wish to become
> part of
> >> our society, learn
> >> > our language", which is a point well-taken,
> and
> >> relevant to English
> >> > teachers worrying about honoring other
> cultures in the
> >> classroom.
> >> >
> >> > In my travels
> >> in France, I have had a number of Frenchmen
> say to me, in
> >> > English, "Of course I speak English but you
> are
> >> in my country and we will
> >> > speak French", to which the only reasonable
> reply
> >> is, oui, bien sur --
> >> > yes, of course.
> >> >
> >> > .brad.12dec09.
> >> >
> >> > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, O'Sullivan, Brian P
> <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From: O'Sullivan, Brian P <[log in to unmask]>
> >> > Subject: Re: "We speak English ...
> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >> > Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 11:32
> >> AM
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > According to
> >> > http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml<http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml>,
> >> > much of this was said by other officials and
> >> misattributed to Howard, and
> >> > Rudd had nothing to do with it. This item has
> been
> >> going around in emails
> >> > for a while, and in some versions the
> attribution was
> >> changed from Howard
> >> > to Rudd after the change of
> >> administrations--apparently to keep the
> >> > message "relevant," though not factual.
> >> >
> >> > Brian
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English
> Grammar
> >> > [[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Brad Johnston
> >> > [[log in to unmask]]
> >> > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 10:13 AM
> >> > To: [log in to unmask]
> >> > Subject: "We speak English ...
> >> >
> >> > (Photo of Prime Minister Rudd rejected by
> ATEG because
> >> all jpeg formats
> >> > are rejected. Ask Google if you want to see
> what he
> >> looks like. )
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia.
> >> >
> >> > Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia
> law were
> >> told on Wednesday
> >> > to get out of Australia, as the government
> targeted
> >> radicals in a bid to
> >> > head off potential terror attacks.
> >> >
> >> > Separately,
> >> Howard angered some Australian Muslims on
> Wednesday by
> >> saying
> >> > he supported spy agencies monitoring the
> nation's
> >> mosques.
> >> >
> >> > "Immigrants, not Australians, must adapt.
> Take It
> >> Or Leave It. I am tired
> >> > of this nation worrying about whether we are
> offending
> >> some individual or
> >> > their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on
> Bali ,
> >> we have experienced a
> >> > surge in patriotism by the majority of
> Australians.
> >> >
> >> > "This culture has been developed over two
> >> centuries of struggles, trials
> >> > and victories by millions of men and women
> who have
> >> sought freedom. We
> >> > speak English, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic,
> Chinese,
> >> Japanese, Russian,
> >> > or any other language. If you wish to become
> part of
> >> our society, learn
> >> > our language!
> >> >
> >> > "Most Australians believe in God. This is
> not
> >> some Christian, right-wing,
> >> > political push, but a fact, because Christian
> men and
> >> women founded
> >> this
> >> > nation on Christian principles and this is
> clearly
> >> documented. It is
> >> > certainly appropriate to display it on the
> walls of
> >> our schools. If God
> >> > offends you, then I suggest you consider
> another part
> >> of the world as your
> >> > new home, because God is part of our
> culture.
> >> >
> >> > "We will accept your beliefs, and will not
> >> question why. All we ask is
> >> > that you accept ours, and live in harmony and
> peaceful
> >> enjoyment with us."
> >> >
> >> > "This is OUR country. OUR land, and OUR
> >> lifestyle, and we will allow you
> >> > every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once
> you are
> >> done complaining,
> >> > whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our
> Pledge, Our
> >> Christian beliefs, or
> >> > Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take
> advantage
> >> of one other great
> >> > Australian freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
> >> >
> >> > "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We
> >> didn't force you to come here.
> >> > You asked to be
> >> here. So accept the country YOU accepted or
> leave
> >> it."
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit
> the
> >> list's web interface at:
> >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> >> and select "Join or leave the list"
> >>
> >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
> >
> > As a naturalized United States citizen, who happens to
> be from Iran and
> > speaks two other languages(other than English), by the
> virtue of having
> > been born and brought up in Iran, I absolutely have no
> problem whatsoever
> > ever with the idea of requiring all immigrants to lean
> English. Myself and
> > thousands like myself had to learn English to
> assimilate into this culture
> > and I know of not one single individual who resents
> that requirement. I
> > think we do a disservice to all minorities in this
> country(myself
> > included)when we send confusing mixed messages that
> suddenly English is
> > not our language, when the international world for
> years now has seen
> > English as America's language. There are people
> in places like Armenia,
> > Kazakhstan and the like who pay money they can't even
> afford, in order to
> > learn English, in the hope that someday they can
> migrate to the United
> > States. It is a complete disservice to those
> immigrants when they do all
> > that work, come here and see
> > that this nation does not honor her own
> language. It is very
> > disappointing.
> >
> > Requiring that English be spoken as the official
> language of the United
> > States is in fact open mindedness, in the sense that
> America realizes most
> > people in the world are already familiar with English
> and have no
> > objection to learning it and also in the sense that
> America does not all
> > of a sudden wish to throw a curve ball at Indian,
> Pakistani, Arab,
> > Russian, and other immigrant minorities with yet
> another language burden
> > by requiring these other minorities to learn yet
> another language other
> > than English. It is also open mindedness for
> some one who is from
> > Armenia, for example is already at the least
> tri-lingual(usually Armenian,
> > Russian and English). This Armenian immigrant
> would then be allowed to
> > assimilate into English more by living here and
> promote her own language
> > of Armenian for her children and grand children.
> If she is required to
> > learn yet another language other than English, she
> further goes into the
> > never never land of never having an
> > opportunity to honor her own language in her own
> house with her own
> > culture and people because America is now all of a
> sudden requiring her
> > to learn yet another European language instead
> practice her own
> > indigenous language of Armenian. Life is short
> and we don't all have an
> > eternity(at least in this earth and life time) to
> continue learning other
> > languages. It is right and in deed equal protection
> for all minorities if
> > America would stop feeling guilty for having English
> as her language. By
> > the way in the Iran I lived in at least for 16 years,
> Farsi was and is
> > the state language. As an Azerbaijani an Iranian, who
> happens to speak
> > Azeri because that is my ethnicity, I personally see
> that as having been
> > right. You see I understand that my Azeri ethnicity is
> not the only
> > minority in Iran; there are others like rash-ti,
> mazandarani, Kurdish and
> > the like; the Farsi language united us, and I am
> grateful for that
> > language unity; it is good to have it so
> > there is communication that is common for all.
> To this day, I believe
> > that Farsi must be the official language of Iran and I
> will believe that
> > to the day I die, just as I believe that English must
> be the official
> > language of the United States and will believe that to
> the day that I
> > pass on from this earth.
> >
> > Thanks for the discussion. You all have a Merry
> Christmas and holiday
> > season, as well as a great new year.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the
> list's web interface
> > at:
> > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> > and select "Join or leave the list"
> >
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> >
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the
> list's web interface at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
Brian, Herb and Craig and all others interested in the subject,
I appreicate the responses to my post. However, let me again emphasize that I am tri-lingual(Farsi, Azeri Turkish and English)being; my own spouse is also tri-lingual(russian, kyrgyz and English); let me again say that I was raised from birth with different languages in Iran. There are many languages spoken in Iran such as Turkish, Kurdish, Gilaky, Lory, Russian, Armenian, Hendi, Urdu and of course(and I praise God in Heaven for this) Farsi. The Farsi language connects the entire nation of Iran with a common bond. I don't resent the reality that I had to speak Farsi in school, at public places or at gatherings. I am by birth an Azeri Iranian, which means that my mother tongue is Azeri Turkish. I never hid the reality that I am an azeri; I always let my frineds know(in Iran)that I was and am an Azeri. However, I am forever grateful that the Farsi language is and at least to this point been the official language of Iran,
again becuase it connects all the peoples of differnet backgrounds with one common language. To this day, even in the United States, miles and miles away from Iran, when my Iranian friends and I gather for holiday Christmas gatherings or other social gatherings, the Farsi language is used eagerly and willingly by us all as a means of unity. No one dictates this to us; we use it willingly to connect and communicate; that is all.
It is simply a matter of respect and remaining united when people of different backgrounds speak one common language. Russia, for example, has a very diverse population, with again languages like Assyrian, Armenian, Azeri, Uzbek, Uygur, Tatar, Polish, Farsi, and on and on, but they use the Russian language as a united means to communicate and have equality for all the differned peoples. When you go to apply for a job in Russia, the only language that you really have to know is Russian; that is the language that is spoken in Russia. This way, the Armenian or the Azeri are not discriminated against because of the simple fact that they would both speak Russian and would qualify for that job. Those realities don't present rasism. I applaud the courage of those of you who have expressed the same kinds of sentiments in reference to English being required as the language of the land. As I said in my previous post, I totally believe that English should be
the official language of the States and I don't see that as one ounce of prejudice due to the fact that I myself had to learn English and it is not my native tonuge. Because of English as having been preceived as the language of the states by many including myself, my wife and I can communicate because I don't speak Russian and she does not speak Farsi, so English brought us toghether; because of English, I can speak with my native American frineds and they can speak with me; you see, I don't speak Navajo or Cherokee, and they don't speak Farsi, so here again English unites us, and it has. Becuause of the English language as having been perceived as having been the language of the United States, my Arabic friends and I can communicate due to the simple fact, that I don't speak Arabic and they don't speak Farsi.
Now a days, in many parts of this nation, in addition to English another European language is required, which means that those of us who don't speak that Romance language are out of luck and a job. This did not use to be the case in this nation when my family and I first arrived but due to political correcntess and not pride or prejuice it is now the case and so no matter how many other languages an individual may be familiar with they are out of that job because they don't happen to speak that yet other European language.
To ensure equality at least at the job place if nothing else, English should be made official so that newspaper adds don't exculude many other monorities such as Native Americans, Chinese American, Iranian Americans, or Arab Americans because they did their job, learned English and now discover they are no longer the right "bilingual" , even though they may be tri lingual like myself.
All told, I love America and thank God that He brought me here; what I have always appreciated about America is the freedom to speak. I Know by some of the posts I read, a good number don't see it this way, but I do, and I am thankful for this opportunity to speak freely. Finally, I will leave you all with one last thought: As the result of my assimilation and having to learn English, I see English as my own language now. I don't in any way, shape or form see this language as a foreign language to me. I speak it, dream it, and even write poetry with it. I love it, and I thank every single American who played a role in this process; they did not see this as a foreign language to me either; they thought of me as an American from the very start, and that helped me become one of you all; assimilation is beautiful and truly a miraculous process. Thanks for letting me speak; in Iran, I can not be so out spoken, as many of you saw in the television news
over the course of summmer.
Blessings to you all.
Peyman
>
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