I like Martha's two but find Dick's acceptable also.
Scott Catledge
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 12:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ATEG Digest - 17 Feb 2012 to 20 Feb 2012 (#2012-24)
There are 8 messages totalling 1864 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. clarity issue (4)
2. untangling nominal clauses (4)
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Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:52:41 -0500
From: Martha Galphin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: clarity issue
--_8c09bc4f-91a4-4886-9956-8a5180e51a29_
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Everyone:
Your thoughts on the following sentence=2C please.
"Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or fell asleep just bef=
ore the crash."
I would have written either
1) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or fallen asleep jus=
t before the crash." or=20
2) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition=2C or he fell asleep=
just before the crash."
Thanks=2C
Martha
=
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--_8c09bc4f-91a4-4886-9956-8a5180e51a29_
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
Everyone:<br>Your thoughts on the following sentence=2C please.<br><br>"Pol=
ice said Garro may have had a medical condition or fell asleep just before =
the crash."<br><br>I would have written either<br>1) "Police said Garro may=
have had a medical condition or fallen asleep just before the crash." or <=
br>2) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition=2C or he fell asl=
eep just before the crash."<br><br>Thanks=2C<br>Martha<br><br><br>
=
</div></body>
</html>=
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--_8c09bc4f-91a4-4886-9956-8a5180e51a29_--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 11:28:16 -0500
From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: clarity issue
--e89a8f3ba9931d40aa04b967c8d9
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I'm with you, Martha. A third option is to repeat the "had": "Police said
Garro may have had a medical condition or had fallen asleep just before the
crash."
Dick
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Martha Galphin
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> Everyone:
> Your thoughts on the following sentence, please.
>
> "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or fell asleep just
> before the crash."
>
> I would have written either
> 1) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or fallen asleep
> just before the crash." or
> 2) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition, or he fell asleep
> just before the crash."
>
> Thanks,
> Martha
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
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--e89a8f3ba9931d40aa04b967c8d9
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I'm with you, Martha. A third option is to repeat the "had": =
"Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or had fallen asle=
ep just before the crash."<br><br>Dick<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e">
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Martha Galphin <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>></=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div dir=3D"ltr">
Everyone:<br>Your thoughts on the following sentence, please.<br><br>"=
Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or fell asleep just befo=
re the crash."<br><br>I would have written either<br>1) "Police s=
aid Garro may have had a medical condition or fallen asleep just before the=
crash." or <br>
2) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition, or he fell asl=
eep just before the crash."<br><br>Thanks,<br>Martha<br><br><br>
=
</div></div>
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--e89a8f3ba9931d40aa04b967c8d9--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:07:49 +0000
From: "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: clarity issue
--_000_D20F2B3DEFA4B943834522CB0F31DF64A69589SN2PRD0410MB371na_
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Dick, Martha,
I wonder if the speaker intended this to be either/or, or if both were =
just possible explanations. If the possibility of a medical condition shoul=
d be countered by an autopsy, then "fell asleep" or "had fallen asleep" see=
m an assertion of fact. "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition=
or may have fallen asleep just before the crash." In this version, these =
are presented as possibilities, but not the only ones.
The initial sentence does seem awkward, but, to me at least, also uncl=
ear.
"Police said Gallo may have had a medical condition before the crash; i=
f not, he fell asleep." That would be clear. But it doesn't seem right that=
the police should be so certain. I like repeating "may" as well.
Craig
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Dick Veit
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 11:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: clarity issue
I'm with you, Martha. A third option is to repeat the "had": "Police said G=
arro may have had a medical condition or had fallen asleep just before the =
crash."
Dick
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Martha Galphin <[log in to unmask]<=
mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Everyone:
Your thoughts on the following sentence, please.
"Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or fell asleep just bef=
ore the crash."
I would have written either
1) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or fallen asleep jus=
t before the crash." or
2) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition, or he fell asleep j=
ust before the crash."
Thanks,
Martha
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dick, Martha,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> I=
wonder if the speaker intended this to be either/or, or if both were just =
possible explanations. If the possibility of a medical condition should be =
countered
by an autopsy, then “fell asleep” or “had fallen asleep&=
#8221; seem an assertion of fact. “Police said Garro may have had a m=
edical condition or may have fallen asleep just before the crash.”&nb=
sp; In this version, these are presented as possibilities, but not the only
ones. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> &=
nbsp;The initial sentence does seem awkward, but, to me at least, also uncl=
ear.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> &=
#8220;Police said Gallo may have had a medical condition before the crash; =
if not, he fell asleep.” That would be clear. But it doesn’t se=
em right that the police
should be so certain. I like repeating “may” as well. <o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Craig<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Assembly=
for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dick Veit<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 20, 2012 11:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: clarity issue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">I'm with you, Martha.=
A third option is to repeat the "had": "Police said Garro m=
ay have had a medical condition or had fallen asleep just before the crash.=
"<br>
<br>
Dick<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:52 AM, Martha Galphin <=
<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>&=
gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Everyone:<br>
Your thoughts on the following sentence, please.<br>
<br>
"Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or fell asleep jus=
t before the crash."<br>
<br>
I would have written either<br>
1) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition or fallen aslee=
p just before the crash." or
<br>
2) "Police said Garro may have had a medical condition, or he fell asl=
eep just before the crash."<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Martha<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
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--_000_D20F2B3DEFA4B943834522CB0F31DF64A69589SN2PRD0410MB371na_--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:37:18 +0000
From: Beth Young <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: untangling nominal clauses
--_000_55FC7F9CBCF2B44E97E2F3FB9EDB9134185B8938NET5011netucfed_
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A student asked me about this sentence:
He spotted [what he thought was a little girl along the side of the road we=
aring pajamas.]
It's clear that the main sentence is simple transitive: He spotted SOMETHIN=
G.
But what is going on inside the [ ] ? At first I thought it was a what-cle=
ft, but when I try to undo the cleft (removing the "what" and the "was") I =
get:
*he thought a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajamas.
Then I thought maybe it was just another nominal clause with the pronoun fr=
onted:
he thought (what) was a little girl along the side of the road wearing paja=
mas
How would you analyze this?
Thanks,
Beth
Dr. Beth Rapp Young
Associate Professor, English
[log in to unmask]
University of Central Florida
"Reach for the Stars"
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no-repe=
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background: transparent
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">A student asked me about this sentence:<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"margin-left: 40px;"><span style=3D"font-style: italic;">He sp=
otted [what he thought was a little girl along the side of the road wearing=
pajamas.]
</span><br>
</div>
<br>
It's clear that the main sentence is simple transitive: <span style=3D"font=
-style: italic;">
He spotted SOMETHING.</span><br>
<br>
But what is going on inside the [ ] ? At first I thought it was a wha=
t-cleft, but when I try to undo the cleft (removing the "what" an=
d the "was") I get:<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"margin-left: 40px;"><span style=3D"font-style: italic;">*he t=
hought a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajamas.</span><br>
</div>
<br>
Then I thought maybe it was just another nominal clause with the pronoun fr=
onted:<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"margin-left: 40px;"><span style=3D"font-style: italic;">he th=
ought (what) was a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajamas</=
span><br>
</div>
<br>
How would you analyze this?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Beth<br>
<br>
Dr. Beth Rapp Young<br>
Associate Professor, English<br>
[log in to unmask]<br>
<br>
University of Central Florida<br>
"Reach for the Stars"<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--_000_55FC7F9CBCF2B44E97E2F3FB9EDB9134185B8938NET5011netucfed_--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:00:13 -0800
From: Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: clarity issue
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:25:10 -0800
From: Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: untangling nominal clauses
<DIV style="font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;
font-size:10pt;"><DIV>Beth,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It may help to paraphrase the nominal clauses. The phrase "he
thought" is parenthetical and is the source of the confusion in
parsing. The untangled version has, "He thought he spotted a little
girl . . ." The parenthetical phrase has taken the place reserved
for sentence adverbs between the subject and the predicate. "He
spotted what hardly perceptibly was a little girl . . . " </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There may have been a little girl along the side of the road
wearing pajamas. [BTW I would say, "walking alongside the road"] </DIV>
<DIV>She was something. </DIV>
<DIV>He may have spotted this thing. (IndNC)</DIV>
<DIV>He thought this. (DecNC)</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In my grammar I call the "headless relative clause" an
indefinite noun clause (with <EM>what</EM>) and the factive noun clause
a "declarative noun clause" (after <EM>think</EM>). </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Bruce</DIV>
<DIV> <BR>--- [log in to unmask] wrote:<BR><BR>From: Beth Young
<[log in to unmask]><BR>To: [log in to unmask]<BR>Subject:
untangling nominal clauses<BR>Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:37:18
+0000<BR><BR></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; DIRECTION: ltr; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE:
10pt">A student asked me about this sentence:<BR><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 40px"><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">He spotted
[what he thought was a little girl along the side of the road wearing
pajamas.] </SPAN><BR></DIV><BR>It's clear that the main sentence is simple
transitive: <SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">He spotted
SOMETHING.</SPAN><BR><BR>But what is going on inside the [ ] ? At
first I thought it was a what-cleft, but when I try to undo the cleft
(removing the "what" and the "was") I get:<BR><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 40px"><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">*he thought
a little girl along the side of the road wearing
pajamas.</SPAN><BR></DIV><BR>Then I thought maybe it was just another
nominal clause with the pronoun fronted:<BR><BR>
<DIV style="MARGIN-LEFT: 40px"><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">he thought
(what) was a little girl along the side of the road wearing
pajamas</SPAN><BR></DIV><BR>How would you analyze
this?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Beth<BR><BR>Dr. Beth Rapp Young<BR>Associate
Professor, English<BR>[log in to unmask]<BR><BR>University of Central
Florida<BR>"Reach for the Stars"<BR></DIV>To join or leave this LISTSERV
list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the
list"
<DIV>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ </DIV></DIV>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:35:48 -0500
From: John Chorazy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: untangling nominal clauses
--e89a8ff1c574351b4a04b96f6e25
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Bruce, just curious - what are you adding the "walking" to clarify? (she
> may not have been walking at all) ... And, although we probably get the
> meaning readily enough, isn't the road the thing wearing pajamas here?
>
> John
>
>
> There may have been a little girl along the side of the road wearing
> pajamas. [BTW I would say, "walking alongside the road"]
>
>
> --- [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> From: Beth Young <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: untangling nominal clauses
> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:37:18 +0000
>
> A student asked me about this sentence:
>
> He spotted [what he thought was a little girl along the side of the road
> wearing pajamas.]
>
> It's clear that the main sentence is simple transitive: He spotted
> SOMETHING.
>
> But what is going on inside the [ ] ? At first I thought it was a
> what-cleft, but when I try to undo the cleft (removing the "what" and the
> "was") I get:
>
> *he thought a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajamas.
>
> Then I thought maybe it was just another nominal clause with the pronoun
> fronted:
>
> he thought (what) was a little girl along the side of the road wearing
> pajamas
>
> How would you analyze this?
>
> Thanks,
> Beth
>
> Dr. Beth Rapp Young
> Associate Professor, English
> [log in to unmask]
>
> University of Central Florida
> "Reach for the Stars"
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
> leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
--
John Chorazy
English III Honors and Academic
Pequannock Township High School
973.616.6000
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--e89a8ff1c574351b4a04b96f6e25
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;pa=
dding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;bor=
der-left-style:solid" class=3D"gmail_quote"><div style=3D"font-family:Verda=
na,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div>Bruce, just curious=A0- what are you adding the "walking" to=
clarify? (she may not have been walking at all) ...=A0And, although we pro=
bably get the meaning readily enough, isn't the road the thing wearing =
pajamas here?</div>
<div>=A0</div><div>John</div><div>=A0</div></div></blockquote><div>=A0</div=
><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left=
-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid" clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">
<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">
<div>There may have been=A0a little girl along the side of the road wearing=
pajamas.=A0[BTW I would say, "walking alongside the road"] </div=
>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>=A0<br>--- <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">Bet=
[log in to unmask]</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Beth Young <<a href=3D"mailto:Be=
[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>><br>To: <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]
IO.EDU</a><br>
Subject: untangling nominal clauses<br>Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:37:18 +000=
0<br><br></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Tahoma;font-size:10pt;direction:=
ltr">A student asked me about this sentence:<br><br>
<div style=3D"margin-left:40px"><span style=3D"font-style:italic">He spotte=
d [what he thought was a little girl along the side of the road wearing paj=
amas.] </span><br></div><br>It's clear that the main sentence is simple=
transitive: <span style=3D"font-style:italic">He spotted SOMETHING.</span>=
<br>
<br>But what is going on inside the [ ] ?=A0 At first I thought it was a wh=
at-cleft, but when I try to undo the cleft (removing the "what" a=
nd the "was") I get:<br><br>
<div style=3D"margin-left:40px"><span style=3D"font-style:italic">*he thoug=
ht a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajamas.</span><br></di=
v><br>Then I thought maybe it was just another nominal clause with the pron=
oun fronted:<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"margin-left:40px"><span style=3D"font-style:italic">he though=
t (what) was a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajamas</span=
><br></div><br>How would you analyze this?<br><br>Thanks,<br>Beth<br><br>Dr=
. Beth Rapp Young<br>
Associate Professor, English<br><a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" targe=
t=3D"_blank">[log in to unmask]</a><br><br>University of Central Florida<br=
>"Reach for the Stars"<br></div>To join or leave this LISTSERV li=
st, please visit the list's web interface at: <a href=3D"http://listser=
v.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=3D"_blank">http://listserv.muohio.e=
du/archives/ateg.html</a> and select "Join or leave the list"=20
<div>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></div>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf=
ace at:
<a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a>
and select "Join or leave the list"
<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://ateg.org/</a>
</p></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>John Chorazy</=
div>
<div>English III Honors and Academic</div>
<div>Pequannock Township High School</div>
<div>973.616.6000</div><br>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--e89a8ff1c574351b4a04b96f6e25--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 20:50:33 -0500
From: Martha Galphin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: untangling nominal clauses
--_8fbfe0bf-1be1-4204-bc65-0bae35aeca3c_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I like the addition of "walking=2C" (or sitting=2C or standing). At first=
=2C because I've seen too much violence television recently=2C I envisioned=
pajama-clad remains scattered along the side of the road especially since =
the writer doesn't seem certain it was a little girl!=20
So=2C move the phrase--"what he thought was a little girl wearing pajamas w=
alking along the side of the road."=20
Date: Mon=2C 20 Feb 2012 20:35:48 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: untangling nominal clauses
To: [log in to unmask]
Bruce=2C just curious - what are you adding the "walking" to clarify? (she =
may not have been walking at all) ... And=2C although we probably get the m=
eaning readily enough=2C isn't the road the thing wearing pajamas here?
John =20
There may have been a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajama=
s. [BTW I would say=2C "walking alongside the road"]=20
=20
=20
--- [log in to unmask] wrote:
From: Beth Young <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: untangling nominal clauses
Date: Mon=2C 20 Feb 2012 21:37:18 +0000
A student asked me about this sentence:
He spotted [what he thought was a little girl along the side of the road we=
aring pajamas.]=20
It's clear that the main sentence is simple transitive: He spotted SOMETHIN=
G.
But what is going on inside the [ ] ? At first I thought it was a what-cle=
ft=2C but when I try to undo the cleft (removing the "what" and the "was") =
I get:
*he thought a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajamas.
Then I thought maybe it was just another nominal clause with the pronoun fr=
onted:
he thought (what) was a little girl along the side of the road wearing paja=
mas
How would you analyze this?
Thanks=2C
Beth
Dr. Beth Rapp Young
Associate Professor=2C English
[log in to unmask]
University of Central Florida
"Reach for the Stars"
To join or leave this LISTSERV list=2C please visit the list's web interfac=
e at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or lea=
ve the list"=20
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/=20
To join or leave this LISTSERV list=2C please visit the list's web interfac=
e at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--=20
John Chorazy
English III Honors and Academic
Pequannock Township High School
973.616.6000
To join or leave this LISTSERV list=2C please visit the list's web interfac=
e at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
=
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--_8fbfe0bf-1be1-4204-bc65-0bae35aeca3c_
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
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}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt=3B
font-family:Tahoma
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>
I like the addition of "walking=2C" (or sitting=2C or standing). At first=
=2C because I've seen too much violence television recently=2C I envisioned=
pajama-clad remains scattered along the side of the road especially since =
the writer doesn't seem certain it was a little girl! <br>So=2C move the ph=
rase--"what he thought was a little girl wearing pajamas walking along the =
side of the road." <br><br><div><div id=3D"SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr i=
d=3D"stopSpelling">Date: Mon=2C 20 Feb 2012 20:35:48 -0500<br>From: john.ch=
[log in to unmask]<br>Subject: Re: untangling nominal clauses<br>To: ATEG=
@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU<br><br><div class=3D"ecxgmail_quote"><blockquote style=
=3D"padding-left:1ex=3Bborder-left-color:rgb(204=2C204=2C204)=3Bborder-left=
-width:1px=3Bborder-left-style:solid" class=3D"ecxgmail_quote"><div style=
=3D"font-family:Verdana=2Csans-serif=3Bfont-size:10pt">
<div>Bruce=2C just curious =3B- what are you adding the "walking" to cl=
arify? (she may not have been walking at all) ... =3BAnd=2C although we=
probably get the meaning readily enough=2C isn't the road the thing wearin=
g pajamas here?</div>
<div> =3B</div><div>John</div><div> =3B</div></div></blockquote><di=
v> =3B</div><blockquote style=3D"padding-left:1ex=3Bborder-left-color:r=
gb(204=2C204=2C204)=3Bborder-left-width:1px=3Bborder-left-style:solid" clas=
s=3D"ecxgmail_quote">
<div style=3D"font-family:Verdana=2Csans-serif=3Bfont-size:10pt">
<div>There may have been =3Ba little girl along the side of the road we=
aring pajamas. =3B[BTW I would say=2C "walking alongside the road"] </d=
iv>
<div> =3B</div>
<div> =3B<br>--- <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
DU</a> wrote:<br><br>From: Beth Young <=3B<a href=3D"mailto:Beth.Young@UC=
F.EDU">[log in to unmask]</a>>=3B<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]
MUOHIO.EDU">[log in to unmask]</a><br>
Subject: untangling nominal clauses<br>Date: Mon=2C 20 Feb 2012 21:37:18 +0=
000<br><br></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0=2C0=2C0)=3Bfont-family:Tahoma=3Bfont-size:10pt=3B=
direction:ltr">A student asked me about this sentence:<br><br>
<div style=3D"margin-left:40px"><span style=3D"font-style:italic">He spotte=
d [what he thought was a little girl along the side of the road wearing paj=
amas.] </span><br></div><br>It's clear that the main sentence is simple tra=
nsitive: <span style=3D"font-style:italic">He spotted SOMETHING.</span><br>
<br>But what is going on inside the [ ] ? =3B At first I thought it was=
a what-cleft=2C but when I try to undo the cleft (removing the "what" and =
the "was") I get:<br><br>
<div style=3D"margin-left:40px"><span style=3D"font-style:italic">*he thoug=
ht a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajamas.</span><br></di=
v><br>Then I thought maybe it was just another nominal clause with the pron=
oun fronted:<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"margin-left:40px"><span style=3D"font-style:italic">he though=
t (what) was a little girl along the side of the road wearing pajamas</span=
><br></div><br>How would you analyze this?<br><br>Thanks=2C<br>Beth<br><br>=
Dr. Beth Rapp Young<br>
Associate Professor=2C English<br><a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">bet=
[log in to unmask]</a><br><br>University of Central Florida<br>"Reach for the =
Stars"<br></div>To join or leave this LISTSERV list=2C please visit the lis=
t's web interface at: <a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.h=
tml" target=3D"_blank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a> an=
d select "Join or leave the list"=20
<div>Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank=
">http://ateg.org/</a> </div></div>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list=2C please visit the list's web interfac=
e at:
<a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a>
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://ateg.org/</a>
<BR></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>John Chorazy</=
div>
<div>English III Honors and Academic</div>
<div>Pequannock Township High School</div>
<div>973.616.6000</div><br>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list=2C please visit the list's web interfac=
e at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/<BR></div>
</div></body=
>
</html>=
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at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
<p>
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
--_8fbfe0bf-1be1-4204-bc65-0bae35aeca3c_--
------------------------------
End of ATEG Digest - 17 Feb 2012 to 20 Feb 2012 (#2012-24)
**********************************************************
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