At first glance I was hoping that this young person was planning on a trade
that requires minimal literacy. I have graded many junior papers and this
would have been no higher than the 25th percentile. At my university,
which, at the time took all Mississippi HS graduates with as few as three
years of high school English (9, 10, 11), this paper in Freshman English
would have received a F for grammar and composition and a C- for content.
If this is an example of a potential West Pointer, the anecdote about
writing comic books to explain how to use technical machinery, including
basic weapons to enlisted men will need updating to include officers. If
we admit this level of literacy to West Point, why is Army not in serious
competition for national championships in football?
Please help this student with grammar, punctuation, spelling, and basic
paragraph construction at the least.
No, I will not debate my evaluation; TOYOTA--you asked for it, you got it.
N. Scott Catledge, PhD/STD
Professor Emeritus
history & languages
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 12:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ATEG Digest - 7 Aug 2009 to 10 Aug 2009 (#2009-170)
There are 4 messages totalling 468 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. writing proficiency? (4)
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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:26:21 -0700
From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: writing proficiency?
--0-1274576255-1249946781=:80073
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I asked a young person who will be a high school junior this Fall to write =
a 300-word essay on any subject. What shall I write about? Whatever suits y=
ou. If you can't think of anything else, try the old stand-by, "what I did =
this summer".
=A0
This is the result. Would some of you who are familiar with the grade level=
=A0please tell me where this effort might rank with those of similar pedigr=
ee? An approximate percentile would be most helpful.
=A0
Secondly, would you correct it or praise it, uncorrected,=A0for the simple =
accomplishment? I will try for more in either event.
=A0
Everything below -- punctuation, spelling, spacing, everything -- is exactl=
y as presented to me, typewritten.
=A0
.thanks.brad.10aug09.
=A0
~~~~~~~~~=A0
=A0
This summer has been a summer of hard work; usually my past summers have be=
en of spending time together and going out to enjoy the hot atmosphere. But=
don't get me wrong we have gone out a couple of times it just hasn't been =
a summer like the past. I started this summer with first working at a super=
market, (since last year) which I have been working at. My family and I we=
nt to the lake a couple of times; we also have gone to King's Dominion. We =
have also made a couple of trips to North Carolina to visit some friends an=
d to spend some time out of state, which we haven't left since 2007. On the=
other hand work has been split up for me because I have been doing Communi=
ty service for the County, and I have been working at the super market the =
rest of the time. The hours I have been doing is for academic recognition a=
nd to serve the community. This is something I have been enjoying a lot, be=
cause I have been at the sports complex fixing the fields and
putting sod. I enjoy this, because my Dad has a Landscaping company and do=
es all this type of work which I'm used to. The time I have donated, I thin=
k has been in good faith; I have met nice people and have talked to differe=
nt types with different types of characters and emotions.=20
=A0
=A0=A0=A0=A0 On the other hand school is also going to begin and I still ha=
ven't gone school shopping but what I'm more interested is to class to star=
t. Also I have Cheerleading practice will start this Wednesday and I need t=
o be very active and hydrated. Then when December starts I'm going to have =
to start competing for acceptance to West Point. Also I'm going to have to =
work real hard and hit the books more often then I'm used to, and finish wi=
th good grades. Which will be an honor for me and my family because then my=
parents will be very happy and content with me.
=A0
~~~~~~~~~=A0
=A0
Word Count: 348=0A=0A=0A
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--0-1274576255-1249946781=:80073
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><DIV>I asked a young person who will be a hig=
h school junior this Fall to write a 300-word essay on any subject. What sh=
all I write about? Whatever suits you. If you can't think of anything else,=
try the old stand-by, "what I did this summer".</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This is the result. Would some of you who are familiar with the grade =
level please tell me where this effort might rank with those of simila=
r pedigree? An approximate percentile would be most helpful.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Secondly, would you correct it or praise it, uncorrected, for the=
simple accomplishment? I will try for more in either event.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Everything below -- punctuation, spelling, spacing, everything -- is <=
U>exactly</U> as presented to me, typewritten.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>.thanks.brad.10aug09.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>~~~~~~~~~ </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>This summer has been a summer of hard work; usually my past summers ha=
ve been of spending time together and going out to enjoy the hot atmosphere=
. But don't get me wrong we have gone out a couple of times it just hasn't =
been a summer like the past. I started this summer with first working at a =
super market, (since last year) which I have been working at. My family and=
I went to the lake a couple of times; we also have gone to King's Dominion=
. We have also made a couple of trips to North Carolina to visit some frien=
ds and to spend some time out of state, which we haven't left since 2007. O=
n the other hand work has been split up for me because I have been doing Co=
mmunity service for the County, and I have been working at the super market=
the rest of the time. The hours I have been doing is for academic recognit=
ion and to serve the community. This is something I have been enjoying a lo=
t, because I have been at the sports complex fixing the fields and
putting sod. I enjoy this, because my Dad has a Landscaping company and do=
es all this type of work which I'm used to. The time I have donated, I thin=
k has been in good faith; I have met nice people and have talked to differe=
nt types with different types of characters and emotions. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> On the other hand school is also going to beg=
in and I still haven't gone school shopping but what I'm more interested is=
to class to start. Also I have Cheerleading practice will start this Wedne=
sday and I need to be very active and hydrated. Then when December starts I=
'm going to have to start competing for acceptance to West Point. Also I'm =
going to have to work real hard and hit the books more often then I'm used =
to, and finish with good grades. Which will be an honor for me and my famil=
y because then my parents will be very happy and content with me.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>~~~~~~~~~ </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Word Count: 348</DIV></td></tr></table><br>=0A=0A
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<p>
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--0-1274576255-1249946781=:80073--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:29:50 -0500
From: DD Farms <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: writing proficiency?
At 06:26 p.m. 10/08/2009, Brad Johnston wrote:
>I asked a young person . . . to write a 300-word essay on any
>subject. . . . "what I did this summer".
> This is the result. Would some of you who are familiar with the
> grade level please tell me where this effort might rank with those
> of similar pedigree? An approximate percentile would be most helpful.
> Secondly, would you correct it or praise it, uncorrected, for the
> simple accomplishment? I will try for more in either event. . . .
DD: The student did complete the mission, I gather no penalty for
exceeding the goal of 300 words. It did describe what he did. Meets
the goal assigned so at least a C, mentally. I'd fault for awkward
phrasing, but it least it wasn't in tweet talk or Iphoneisms. I
understood his message clearly. I'd give a B, mentally. If I were
tutoring, I'd note each item that needs attention, to bring up later
as I went on with the instruction. Sort of pep talk, "Very good for
an entering Junior. You have talent, and I think together we can
raise you up to the level of a College student, this year." As to
percentile, I'd say 80th percentile.
I showed this to my daughter who is fairly high up in a Vanderbilt
Research Lab. She independently said 85%.
Her Daughter, trying out as a school teacher's assistant also said 80% to
85%.
For what it is worth, if I had turned that in at Knoxville High
School in the late 1940's, I'd have been relegated to the Vocational
High School. I asked a University of Tennessee Ornimental
Horticulture and Landscape Design Graduate about that sod. She said
the term is usually laying sod, not putting it. Thought that term
might be regional.
I thank you for sharing this. I get warped dealing with all above
average IQ's at the Hybrid School.
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:41:00 +0000
From: Jan Kammert <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: writing proficiency?
Is this student a native English speaker?=20
----------- Original message from Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>: ---=
--------
I asked a young person who will be a high school junior this Fall to write =
a 300-word essay on any subject. What shall I write about? Whatever suits y=
ou. If you can't think of anything else, try the old stand-by, "what I did =
this summer". This is the result. Would some of you who are familiar with t=
he grade level please tell me where this effort might rank with those of si=
milar pedigree? An approximate percentile would be most helpful. Secondly, =
would you correct it or praise it, uncorrected, for the simple accomplishme=
nt? I will try for more in either event. Everything below -- punctuation, s=
pelling, spacing, everything -- is exactly as presented to me, typewritten.=
.thanks.brad.10aug09. ~~~~~~~~~ This summer has been a summer of hard wor=
k; usually my past summers have been of spending time together and going ou=
t to enjoy the hot atmosphere. But don't get me wrong we have gone out a co=
uple of times it just hasn't been a summer like the past. I started this su=
mmer with first working at a super market, (since last year) which I have b=
een working at. My family and I went to the lake a couple of times; we also=
have gone to King's Dominion. We have also made a couple of trips to North=
Carolina to visit some friends and to spend some time out of state, which =
we haven't left since 2007. On the other hand work has been split up for me=
because I have been doing Community service for the County, and I have bee=
n working at the super market the rest of the time. The hours I have been d=
oing is for academic recognition and to serve the community. This is someth=
ing I have been enjoying a lot, because I have been at the sports complex f=
ixing the fields and
putting sod. I enjoy this, because my Dad has a Landscaping company and do=
es all this type of work which I'm used to. The time I have donated, I thin=
k has been in good faith; I have met nice people and have talked to differe=
nt types with different types of characters and emotions. On the othe=
r hand school is also going to begin and I still haven't gone school shoppi=
ng but what I'm more interested is to class to start. Also I have Cheerlead=
ing practice will start this Wednesday and I need to be very active and hyd=
rated. Then when December starts I'm going to have to start competing for a=
cceptance to West Point. Also I'm going to have to work real hard and hit t=
he books more often then I'm used to, and finish with good grades. Which wi=
ll be an honor for me and my family because then my parents will be very ha=
ppy and content with me. ~~~~~~~~~ Word Count: 348
=20=20=20=20=20=20
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at:
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and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:42:20 -0400
From: Mary Jo Napholz <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: writing proficiency?
----------MB_8CBE83C1A05E54F_378_1F36_webmail-md15.sysops.aol.com
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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This is a typical first draft for a kid who has just completed sophomore
year, if the program they were in did not have a writing emphasis.? The
piece tells about the summer, but does not show what the summer was like to
the reader.? For three hundred words I would ask the student to zero in on
one facet of the summer.? A day at the grocery store, only a hour or so.?
What were the sights, smells, noises around her.? Describe the people who
came in.? Look for some quirky events or oddities.? Or do a day laying sod
at the playground, what is the process?? Who helped?? What kind of
"characters" did she encounter? What did they do that made the writer decide
they were nice?? Do not correct.? Ask for another draft helping her find a
focus.? She may want to try writing both events and see which one flows
better.? If the overall goal is "academic," turn this into a college
entrance essay, which gives a more authentic audience.?
-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:26 pm
Subject: writing proficiency?
I asked a young person who will be a high school junior this Fall to write a
300-word essay on any subject. What shall I write about? Whatever suits you.
If you can't think of anything else, try the old stand-by, "what I did this
summer".
?
This is the result. Would some of you who are familiar with the grade
level?please tell me where this effort might rank with those of similar
pedigree? An approximate percentile would be most helpful.
?
Secondly, would you correct it or praise it, uncorrected,?for the simple
accomplishment? I will try for more in either event.
?
Everything below -- punctuation, spelling, spacing, everything -- is exactly
as presented to me, typewritten.
?
.thanks.brad.10aug09.
?
~~~~~~~~~?
?
This summer has been a summer of hard work; usually my past summers have
been of spending time together and going out to enjoy the hot atmosphere.
But don't get me wrong we have gone out a couple of times it just hasn't
been a summer like the past. I started this summer with first working at a
super market, (since last year) which I have been working at. My family and
I went to the lake a couple of times; we also have gone to King's Dominion.
We have also made a couple of trips to North Carolina to visit some friends
and to spend some time out of state, which we haven't left since 2007. On
the other hand work has been split up for me because I have been doing
Community service for the County, and I have been working at the super
market the rest of the time. The hours I have been doing is for academic
recognition and to serve the community. This is something I have been
enjoying a lot, because I have been at the sports complex fixing the fields
and
putting sod. I enjoy this, because my Dad has a Landscaping company and
does all this type of work which I'm used to. The time I have donated, I
think has been in good faith; I have met nice people and have talked to
different types with different types of characters and emotions.
?
???? On the other hand school is also going to begin and I still haven't
gone school shopping but what I'm more interested is to class to start. Also
I have Cheerleading practice will start this Wednesday and I need to be very
active and hydrated. Then when December starts I'm going to have to start
competing for acceptance to West Point. Also I'm going to have to work real
hard and hit the books more often then I'm used to, and finish with good
grades. Which will be an honor for me and my family because then my parents
will be very happy and content with me.
?
~~~~~~~~~?
?
Word Count: 348
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and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
<div> This is a typical first draft for a kid who has just completed
sophomore year<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">,</font> if the
program they were in did not have a writing emphasis. The piece tells
about the summer, but does not show what the summer was like to the
reader. For three hundred words I would ask the student to zero in on
one facet of the summer. A day at the grocery store, only a hour or
so. What were the sights, smells, noises around her. Describe
the people who came in. Look for some quirky events or oddities.
Or do a day laying sod at the playground, what is the process? Who
helped? What kind of "characters" did she encounter? What did they do
that made the writer decide they were nice? Do not correct. Ask
for another draft helping her find a focus. <font face="Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif">She may want to try writing both events and see which
one flows better. If the ov
erall goal is "academic," turn this into a college entrance essay, which
gives a more authentic audience. </font><br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]><br>
To: [log in to unmask]<br>
Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:26 pm<br>
Subject: writing proficiency?<br>
<br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_e4b0004d-8ff5-47c2-a9af-b21d2443ffd1">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td
style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit;
font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit;
font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; -x-system-font: none;"
valign="top">
<div>I asked a young person who will be a high school junior this Fall to
write a 300-word essay on any subject. What shall I write about? Whatever
suits you. If you can't think of anything else, try the old stand-by, "what
I did this summer".</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This is the result. Would some of you who are familiar with the grade
level please tell me where this effort might rank with those of similar
pedigree? An approximate percentile would be most helpful.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Secondly, would you correct it or praise it, uncorrected, for the
simple accomplishment? I will try for more in either event.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Everything below -- punctuation, spelling, spacing, everything -- is
<u>exactly</u> as presented to me, typewritten.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>.thanks.brad.10aug09.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>~~~~~~~~~ </div>
<div> </div>
<div>This summer has been a summer of hard work; usually my past summers
have been of spending time together and going out to enjoy the hot
atmosphere. But don't get me wrong we have gone out a couple of times it
just hasn't been a summer like the past. I started this summer with first
working at a super market, (since last year) which I have been working at.
My family and I went to the lake a couple of times; we also have gone to
King's Dominion. We have also made a couple of trips to North Carolina to
visit some friends and to spend some time out of state, which we haven't
left since 2007. On the other hand work has been split up for me because I
have been doing Community service for the County, and I have been working at
the super market the rest of the time. The hours I have been doing is for
academic recognition and to serve the community. This is something I have
been enjoying a lot, because I have been at the sports complex fixing the
fields and
putting sod. I enjoy this, because my Dad has a Landscaping company and
does all this type of work which I'm used to. The time I have donated, I
think has been in good faith; I have met nice people and have talked to
different types with different types of characters and emotions. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> On the other hand school is also going to
begin and I still haven't gone school shopping but what I'm more interested
is to class to start. Also I have Cheerleading practice will start this
Wednesday and I need to be very active and hydrated. Then when December
starts I'm going to have to start competing for acceptance to West Point.
Also I'm going to have to work real hard and hit the books more often then
I'm used to, and finish with good grades. Which will be an honor for me and
my family because then my parents will be very happy and content with
me.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>~~~~~~~~~ </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Word Count: 348</div>
</td></tr></tbody></table><br>
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<div>
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target="_blank">http://ateg.org/</a>
</div>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_2_e4b0004d-8ff5-47c2-a9af-b21d2443ffd1 -->
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------------------------------
End of ATEG Digest - 7 Aug 2009 to 10 Aug 2009 (#2009-170)
**********************************************************
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