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August 2008

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Subject:
From:
"STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 27 Aug 2008 12:36:52 -0400
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I just had a doctoral student defend a dissertation on odd plurals like we're talking about.  Part of his research was a survey that put each such word into seven different grammatical positions that are tests for the singular/plural distinction.  It was surprising how many of his 200+ subjects rated the same form differently in the different environments.  "Games" may work with an indefinite, and therefore singular, article but not with singular verb agreement.  Pronominal reference will also behave variably.

The Olympic games are important for their/*its celebration of athletic achievement.
The Olympic games are an important event, and they'll/it'll be held in London in 2012.

Pronominal number agreement that's necessary within a clause tends to weaken as it crosses clause boundaries.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Miller, Robert
Sent: 2008-08-27 11:29
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: noun verbs

The Olympic games are an important event.

The Olympic games in China is/are an important event?

I don't know.

Bob Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Adams
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2008 11:40 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: noun verbs

Did anyone notice how NBC kept talk about Phelps's unprecedented
winning of eight gold medals in a single Olympic games?  A games?  Can
you say that?

Peter Adams


On Aug 26, 2008, at 10:51 PM, STAHLKE, HERBERT F wrote:

> There's a slightly too broad maxim in English grammar that "any noun
> can be verbed."  In many cases--claim, hope, report, etc.--they've
> been used long enough to become established in formal standard
> usage.  I know editors and teachers who will still reject "impact"
> as a verb, although it's widely used and has a history going back to
> 1601.  "Medal" first appears as a verb, in the OED entry, in 1822,
> but all uses until 1966 are passive.  The first active use is about
> divers medaling in several of their events, reported in the Van Nuys
> Valley News.  The OED does not have an entry for "podium" as a verb,
> so that one has to be more recent.  Whether a particular denominal
> verb should be used is very much a matter of taste.
>
> Herb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]
> ] On Behalf Of diane skinner
> Sent: 2008-08-26 20:43
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: noun verbs
>
> To All (or anyone),
>
> Assuming that nouns and verbs are labeled as form classes (they accept
> derivational and/or inflectional morphemes) and considering
> that restrictions on word selection and its position allow the hearer
> ( and/or reader) to understand what the speaker (and/or writer) is
> trying to communicate, yet recognizing that these form classes often
> overlap in function (a verb can act like a noun: I study English. /  I
> study English in my study.), how is it that a few commentators during
> the NBC broadcast of the Olympics --presumably speaking Standard
> American English--said, "He should medal" and "He should, at least,
> podium"?
>
> I'm not a purist, but I'm still trying to get used to "I'll email you,
> and you text me back."
>
> Diane Skinner
>
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