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Subject:
From:
"STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 26 Apr 2010 22:55:28 -0400
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Odile,

I think that very thoughtfully posed set of questions hinges on the distinction between structure and function.  If we define "subject" and "predicate" functionally, then the predicate is the comment the sentence makes on the topic, typically the subject.  If we define the predicate structurally, then the predicate is the verb phrase, a structure comprising the verb, its complements, and its modifiers.  The term "subject complement" is a structural term for the complement of a linking verb.  If what is the functional subject of a verbless clause that is comprised of the complements of a complex transitive verb, that is, a direct object and its complement, then the subject complement becomes an object complement.  The reverse of this shift takes place in the passive of a complex transitive:

Active:  Her teachers consider Mary bright.
Passive: Mary is considered bright by her teachers.

In the passive version, "bright" is now a subject complement.

The terminological problem with "predicate" becomes clearer when we deal with subordinate clauses that do not, relative to the discourse they are part of, have a topic-comment structure but do have a subject-predicate structure.  In your examples with subordinate clauses, the clauses have subjects and predicates, in a structural sense but not in a functional sense.  It's the ambiguity of these terms, whether we are using them structurally or functionally, that causes the problems you lay out so neatly.

(For those who might, correctly, take exception to the distinction I'm making in the last paragraph, I agree, but at the level of discourse the topic-comment distinction tends to act at the main clause level.  While there are clearly exceptions, we don't tend to put new information in subordinate clauses, and topics are typically subjects of main clauses--except when they're not.  But I've tried to avoid these issues above.)

Herb

 
Date:    Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:18:56 -0700
From:    Odile Sullivan-Tarazi <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Predicate adjectives: three questions

I am tangled up in the throes of predicate adjectives, and I'm 
wondering whether anyone can help.  I have three questions.


* Question 1

Is an adjective in the object complement slot a predicate adjective? 
(That is, with an understood copula.)

           She considered the car red.

I think yes.  The _to be_ relationship is understood, and the 
adjective appears in the predicate phrase.


* Question 2

Is the adjective that follows a noun in the subject phrase a 
predicate adjective when it follows a verbal (infinitive, 
participial) form and refers back to that noun?

           The car, being red . . .

           The car, considered red . . .

           The car, to be red . . .

I think no.  The adjective is not in the predicate phrase.  (The verb 
form is not finite, but then neither is the understood "to be" in the 
first example, so the limiting factor is that the adjective does not 
appear in the predicate phrase, right?)

But if so, if this is the limiting factor, must the predicate phrase 
be that of the entire sentence?  Is the crucial point here not that 
the adjective is not in _the_ predicate phrase, but that the 
adjective is not in _any_ predicate phrase?  (That's question 3, 
actually.)


* Question 3

Is an adjective that appears within the predicate phrase of its 
clause as a subject complement in that clause a predicate adjective, 
regardless of whether it appears in the predicate phrase for the 
entire sentence?

           I like that car because it is red.  (two main verbs, so no 
problem here)

           I like the car that is red.

           I like the car, which is red.

           I think that the car is red.

I think yes.  Within the clause, the relationship is that of a 
predicate adjective.

But does it matter that in the second, third, and fourth sentences 
the main verb is transitive?  There is a sense in which, for these 
particular sentences, the embedded clause appears in the predicate 
phrase, but not in the standard way in which we think of predicate 
adjectives.  And in the second and third, it might as easily have not.

           The car that is red . . .

           The car, which is red, . . . .

Does it matter, with respect to the entire sentence (for the purpose 
of this one issue: is _red_ a predicate adjective here or not), 
whether the relative clause falls within the subject phrase or the 
predicate phrase?


_____

Predicate adjectives are most commonly spoken of in terms of being 
subject complements with respect to the entire sentence, but is it 
rather the case that the predicate adjective is linked to its noun 
via _to be_ or another linking verb, whether explicitly or 
implicitly, such that it appears in the predicate of some clause?

In other words, the limiting factor is not that the verb be 
conjugated (it is not in the case of the object complement), but that 
the adjective be situated as a predicate within a clause (it is not, 
for instance, in the case of a relative phrase).

I think so.



Odile

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End of ATEG Digest - 15 Mar 2010 to 17 Mar 2010 (#2010-37)
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