Bill,
First, sorry to post this to the entire list.  If I should contact you
off list, let me know.
Let me be the first to take you up on your offer.  I teach 6th grade
language arts in California.  Our text is Prentice Hall's Writing and
Grammar.  I also use Ed's KISS materials.

Marcia Alessi
Los Angeles
On Apr 20, 2005, at 9:14 PM, William McCleary wrote:

> I've been following with interest this dispute between Ed and the
> linguists. I think every discipline has this split between the
> theorists/researchers and those who want to apply what the former
> have learned.
>
> As I've said before, I tend to sympathize with Ed's peevish attitude.
> He started what has become ATEG off by his interest in applying stuff
> about grammar to the pre-college levels, but we seem to get darn
> little of that done. Nor do I agree that having college professors
> tell pre-college teachers what they want done will be very
> productive. NCTE was, after all, started as a rebellion against
> colleges telling high school teachers what literature they should
> teach.
>
> In like manner, I sympathize with language arts teachers about the
> many subjects they are required to teach. Exacerbating the situation
> is that states require language arts teachers to major in English. In
> virtually every college, the English department is interested in
> literature. Period. And that's what the English major consists of.
> Sure, the professors (whom I refer to as "The Lits") may agree to
> allow one course in composition and another in grammar in the major.
> This doesn't bother many English majors because for most of them
> literature is their first love. But it sure causes trouble when they
> become teachers and are supposed to give equal time to language,
> literature, and composition (the three legs of the traditional
> "English tripod). Most of them can't do that because their college
> major didn't give equal time to all three, so they don't. So states
> have had to establish these much-disliked standards in order to force
> paying more attention to composition and language. They should have
> forced English departments to change the English major, but they
> didn't--or at least didn't do enough.
>
> As for me, I got around the problem by starting with a typical BA in
> literature. Then I got an MA in what was then called English
> Language. (This was before most colleges had linguistics
> departments.) And then I got a PhD in English Education, with an
> emphasis on composition. (This was before the invention of the PhD in
> rhetoric and composition that is now so popular; in those days, if
> you wanted to study composition theory and practice, you had to do it
> in some other department than English.)
>
>
> Anyway, now that I have that off my chest, I want to join Ed in
> trying to raise more interest in applying language concepts to
> pre-college levels. To do that, I want to remind everyone of the
> curriculum and rationale that I developed for grades 4-10. (You can
> find it at this url: ateg.org/grammar/syllabi.htm.) I am volunteering
> to write a unit for anyone teaching those grades. The unit would
> integrate language and composition (and/or literature). You just tell
> me what you want to cover, and I'll see what I can do. I'll consult
> with you every step of the way, for I wouldn't want to create
> something no one would use. I will begin with the concepts in the
> curriculum I wrote, but the sequence of concepts for different grades
> is not carved in stone. I intended to modify it in response to
> comments from members of ATEG, but so far I haven't received any
> comments.
>
> Will anyone take me up on this offer?
>
> Bill
>
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> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
Marcia Alessi
Language Arts & Social Studies
Sixth Grade
St. Paul the Apostle School
Los Angeles, California

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