Thanks to all who responded. You are a font of information, from whom I continue to learn much.
Dick
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 4, 2013, at 4:26 PM, "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dick et al.:
>
> I've located a few examples that seem similar. Two of them are from
> coverage of the O.J. Simpson trial, and I'm wondering if "observe X to Y"
> in the sense of "observe that X does Y" might be more common in legalese
> (and if so, to what degree the first kind of construction might foreground
> X in ways the second doesn't, or vice versa). --- Bill Spruiell.
>
>
> COCA:
>
> [CNN News, Simpson trial, 1995]: I observe them to be looking over the
> body, and Lange appears to be describing to Radcliffe what is there.
>
> [CBS Morning, 1995, also in reference to the Simpson trial] When I asked
> you,' Did you ever observe them to argue or fight,' did you tell me about
> the Christmas Eve argument?
>
>
>
>
> Corpus of English Novels:
>
>
> [_Prince Otto_, 1885] 'You must be right, madam,' replied the Prince.
> 'For six years that we have been good friends, I have observed you to grow
> younger.'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/4/13 8:18 AM, "Scott Carledge" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> No one has ever accused writers of computer manuals or directives of being
>> literate. On occasion, literate people write on computer topics; however,
>> they are exceptions to the rule.
>> I impolitely on occasion read computer manuals just for amusement and
>> wonder
>> what was the native language of the writer before the work underwent
>> machine
>> translation.
>> Scott Catledge
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest
>> system
>> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 12:01 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: ATEG Digest - 2 Mar 2013 to 3 Mar 2013 (#2013-19)
>>
>> There are 4 messages totalling 917 lines in this issue.
>>
>> Topics of the day:
>>
>> 1. OBSERVE + complement infinitive (4)
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>> at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 11:24:04 -0500
>> From: Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>>
>> --14dae9340c21424b3904d707abf9
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>> Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a complement infinitive:
>>
>>
>> We expected that our dog would like prosciutto.
>> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.
>>
>>
>> Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a complement infinitive:
>>
>>
>> We denied that our dog disdains prosciutto.
>> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.
>>
>>
>> I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter category; for example, I
>> wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like prosciutto.=94 So I was
>> surpr=
>> ised by the following sentence in an update notice for an iPad app:
>>
>>
>> We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app and
>> to
>> cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>>
>>
>> I first attempted to read it as an adverbial infinitive along these lines:
>>
>>
>> We have gone to the trouble of observing this issue in order to prevent
>> you
>> from =85
>>
>>
>> After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they meant it as a
>> complement.=
>> So my question is this:
>>
>>
>> Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive: (a) in relatively
>> widespread
>> use in contemporary colloquial English; (b) in widespread use in
>> tech-speak
>> but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely a singularity in the quoted
>> sentence?
>>
>>
>> Dick
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>> at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> --14dae9340c21424b3904d707abf9
>> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a
>> complement infinitive: <br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">We expected that our
>> dog=
>> would like prosciutto.<br> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.</p><p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"= margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a
>> complement infinitive:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We denied that our dog
>> di=
>> sdains prosciutto.<br> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.</p><p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style= =3D"margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter
>> cate=
>> gory; for example, I wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like
>> prosciutto.=94 <spa=
>> n>=A0</span>So I was surprised by the following sentence in
>> an update notice for an iPad app:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have observed this
>> iss=
>> ue to prevent you from logging into the app and to cause some instances of
>> error =
>> 108
>> when attempting playback.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>> style=3D"margin-left:.5=
>> in"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I first attempted to read it as an adverbial
>> infinit=
>> ive along these lines:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have gone to the
>> troub=
>> le of observing this issue in order to prevent you from =85</p><p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style= =3D"margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they
>> me=
>> ant it as a complement.<span> </span>So my question is this:</p><p
>> class=3D"MsoNor= mal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is the use of OBSERVE + complement
>> infinitive:<span>=
>> =A0 </span>(a) in relatively widespread use in contemporary colloquial
>> English; (b) in widespread use in tech-speak but not in colloqui= al
>> English; or (c) merely a singularity in the quoted sentence?</p><p
>> class=3D=
>> "MsoNormal"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dick<br></p> To join or leave
>> this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>> <p>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> --14dae9340c21424b3904d707abf9--
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 18:32:24 +0000
>> From: "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>>
>> --_000_D20F2B3DEFA4B943834522CB0F31DF646F74042FCH1PRD0411MB420_
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>> Dick,
>> I think it's an anomaly, though I admit I'm not immersed in tech talk.
>> To me, the problem starts with selecting "issue" as subject (perhaps
>> im=
>> plied) to the verb "prevent." Presumably, whatever it is is an issue
>> becaus=
>> e it causes problems, not the reverse, but that may be clearer in
>> context. =
>> "I have observed this glitch (to) prevent people from logging on..." As i
>> s=
>> uggest with parentheses around 'to,' I think it would read better without
>> i=
>> t, somewhat echoing the grammar for other perception verbs: "I saw the
>> glit=
>> ch prevent some people from logging on." "I have watched alcohol ruin my
>> ne=
>> ighbor's life." "I heard the plane land in a nearby field."
>> When you have more than one awkwardness in a sentence, it's easier to
>> d=
>> ismiss the judgment of the writer.
>>
>> Craig
>> ________________________________
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [[log in to unmask]
>> U] on behalf of Dick Veit [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:24 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>>
>> Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a complement infinitive:
>>
>> We expected that our dog would like prosciutto.
>> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.
>>
>> Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a complement infinitive:
>>
>> We denied that our dog disdains prosciutto.
>> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.
>>
>> I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter category; for example, I
>> wo=
>> uldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like prosciutto.=94 So I was
>> surpris=
>> ed by the following sentence in an update notice for an iPad app:
>>
>> We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app and
>> to=
>> cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>>
>> I first attempted to read it as an adverbial infinitive along these lines:
>>
>> We have gone to the trouble of observing this issue in order to prevent
>> you=
>> from =85
>>
>> After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they meant it as a
>> complement.=
>> So my question is this:
>>
>> Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive: (a) in relatively
>> widesprea=
>> d use in contemporary colloquial English; (b) in widespread use in
>> tech-spe=
>> ak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely a singularity in the
>> quoted=
>> sentence?
>>
>> Dick
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface =
>> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
>> leave=
>> the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>> at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> --_000_D20F2B3DEFA4B943834522CB0F31DF646F74042FCH1PRD0411MB420_
>> Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>> <html dir=3D"ltr">
>> <head>
>> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
>> charset=3DWindows-1=
>> 252"> <style type=3D"text/css" id=3D"owaParaStyle"><!----></style>
>> </head>
>> <body fpstyle=3D"1" ocsi=3D"0">
>> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
>> #000000;font-size: =
>> 10pt;">Dick, <div> I think it's an anomaly, though I admit
>> I'm
>> not immersed= in tech talk.</div> <div> To me, the problem
>> starts with selecting "issue&quo= t; as subject (perhaps implied) to
>> the verb "prevent." Presumably= , whatever it is is an issue
>> because it causes problems, not the reverse, b= ut that may be clearer in
>> context. "I have observed this glitch
>> (to) prevent people from logging on..." As i suggest with
>> parentheses=
>> around 'to,' I think it would read better without it, somewhat echoing
>> the=
>> grammar for other perception verbs: "I saw the glitch prevent some
>> pe=
>> ople from logging on." "I have watched alcohol ruin my
>> neighbor's
>> life." "I heard the plane land in a nearby fi=
>> eld." </div> <div> When you have more than one
>> awkwardness in a sentence, i= t's easier to dismiss the judgment of the
>> writer.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Craig<br> <div style=3D"font-family:
>> Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px= "> <hr tabindex=3D"-1">
>> <div id=3D"divRpF433409" style=3D"direction: ltr;"><font face=3D"Tahoma"
>> si=
>> ze=3D"2" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Assembly for the Teaching of
>> Englis=
>> h Grammar [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Dick Veit
>> [dickveit@GMAIL=
>> .COM]<br> <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:24 AM<br> <b>To:</b>
>> [log in to unmask]<br> <b>Subject:</b> OBSERVE + complement
>> infinitive<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal">Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a c=
>> omplement infinitive:
>> <br>
>> </p>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
>> </p>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">We expected that our
>> dog=
>> would like prosciutto.<br> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.</p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal">Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a c=
>> omplement infinitive:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We denied that our dog di=
>> sdains prosciutto.<br> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.</p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal">I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter cate=
>> gory; for example, I wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like
>> prosciutt=
>> o.=94
>> <span> </span>So I was surprised by the following sentence in an
>> updat=
>> e notice for an iPad app:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have observed this iss=
>> ue
>> to prevent you from logging into the app and to cause some instances of =
>> error 108 when attempting playback.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>> style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I first
>> attempted to read it as an adverbial infinit= ive along these lines:</p>
>> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>> style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have gone to the troub= le of observing this
>> issue in order to prevent you from =85</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>> style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">After puzzling
>> it out, of course, I realized they me= ant it as a complement.<span>
>> </span>So my question is this:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal">Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive:<s=
>> pan> </span>
>> (a) in relatively widespread use in contemporary colloquial English; (b)
>> in=
>> widespread use in tech-speak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely
>> =
>> a singularity in the quoted sentence?</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dick<br> </p> To join or leave this LISTSERV list,
>> please visit the list's web interface =
>> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join
>> or =
>> leave the list" <p>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ </p>
>> </div> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> To join or leave this LISTSERV
>> list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>> <p>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> --_000_D20F2B3DEFA4B943834522CB0F31DF646F74042FCH1PRD0411MB420_--
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 11:49:18 -0700
>> From: "Peter H. Fries" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>>
>> --f46d042c64b9aa8b6b04d709b29a
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>> Re:
>>
>> We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app and
>> to
>> cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dick, My immediate take on this example was like yours. However, I looked
>> in
>> my copy of John Sinclair (ed.) 1996. *The Collins Cobuild Grammar Patters
>> 1:
>> Verbs, *Harper Collins, p 296, and found* observe *listed among verbs that
>> appear in the V n to-inf pattern =96but with the note =93only in= the
>> passive=94.* *This book and the second volume are based on exhaustive
>> searches of the Bank of English which at the time they were preparing
>> theses
>> books stood at 250 million words. so inclusion in this list implies that
>> observe is found in the V n to-inf pattern (in the passive) sufficiently
>> frequently to meet their criteria for inclusion.
>>
>> The passive version of your example doesn't sound TOO bad to my ears, so I
>> suspect that this example is more an extension of a known pattern rather
>> than a new creation de novo. In fact I wonder if this wording is not the
>> fi=
>> rst version of this sentence, but rather a result of editing to fit the
>> purposesof the larger text segment. For example someone might have thought
>> that *this issue has been observed to =85* was too impersonal. If my hunch
>> is anywhere near true the authors certainly missed--at least for you and
>> for
>> me.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Dick Veit <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a complement
>>> infinitive:
>>>
>>>
>>> We expected that our dog would like prosciutto.
>>> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.
>>>
>>>
>>> Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a complement
>>> infinitive:
>>>
>>>
>>> We denied that our dog disdains prosciutto.
>>> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.
>>>
>>>
>>> I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter category; for example,
>>> I wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like prosciutto.=94 So I
>>> was sur=
>> prised
>>> by the following sentence in an update notice for an iPad app:
>>>
>>>
>>> We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app
>>> and to cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>>>
>>>
>>> I first attempted to read it as an adverbial infinitive along these
>>> lines=
>> :
>>>
>>>
>>> We have gone to the trouble of observing this issue in order to
>>> prevent you from =85
>>>
>>>
>>> After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they meant it as a
>>> complemen=
>> t. So
>>> my question is this:
>>>
>>>
>>> Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive: (a) in relatively
>>> widespread use in contemporary colloquial English; (b) in widespread
>>> use =
>> in
>>> tech-speak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely a singularity
>>> in the quoted sentence?
>>>
>>>
>>> Dick
>>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>>> interfac=
>> e
>>> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
>>> leave the list"
>>>
>>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> --=20
>> Peter H. Fries
>>
>> From mid May 2012
>> Box 310
>> Mount Pleasant MI 48804
>>
>> Phone: 989-644-3384
>> Cell: 989-400-3764
>>
>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Web page:
>> <http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516.xml<http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516=
>> .xml>>
>> [among 'emeritus faculty']
>>
>> From early December 2012 to late April 2013
>>
>> 5751 N. Kolb Rd.
>>
>> Unit 28-102
>>
>> Tucson AZ 85750
>>
>> phone: 520-329-8420
>>
>> cell: 989-400-3764
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>> at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> --f46d042c64b9aa8b6b04d709b29a
>> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <style>
>> <!--
>> /* Font Definitions */
>> @font-face
>> {font-family:Times;
>> panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;
>> mso-font-charset:0;
>> mso-generic-font-family:auto;
>> mso-font-pitch:variable;
>> mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;}
>> @font-face
>> {font-family:Times;
>> panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;
>> mso-font-charset:0;
>> mso-generic-font-family:auto;
>> mso-font-pitch:variable;
>> mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;}
>> /* Style Definitions */
>> p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
>> {mso-style-unhide:no;
>> mso-style-qformat:yes;
>> mso-style-parent:"";
>> margin-top:4.0pt;
>> margin-right:0in;
>> margin-bottom:0in;
>> margin-left:0in;
>> margin-bottom:.0001pt;
>> mso-line-height-alt:1.1pt;
>> mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
>> font-size:14.0pt;
>> mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;
>> font-family:Times;
>> mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
>> mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
>> mso-fareast-language:JA;}
>> p.MsoFooter, li.MsoFooter, div.MsoFooter
>> {mso-style-priority:99;
>> mso-style-qformat:yes;
>> mso-style-link:"Footer Char";
>> margin:0in;
>> margin-bottom:.0001pt;
>> mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
>> tab-stops:center 3.0in right 6.0in;
>> font-size:11.0pt;
>> font-family:Times;
>> mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
>> mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
>> font-variant:small-caps;
>> mso-fareast-language:JA;}
>> span.FooterChar
>> {mso-style-name:"Footer Char";
>> mso-style-priority:99;
>> mso-style-unhide:no;
>> mso-style-locked:yes;
>> mso-style-link:Footer;
>> mso-ansi-font-size:11.0pt;
>> mso-bidi-font-size:11.0pt;
>> font-family:Times;
>> mso-ascii-font-family:Times;
>> mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
>> mso-hansi-font-family:Times;
>> mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
>> font-variant:small-caps;}
>> .MsoChpDefault
>> {mso-style-type:export-only;
>> mso-default-props:yes;
>> font-family:Cambria;
>> mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria;
>> mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
>> mso-fareast-font-family:"=EF=BC=AD=EF=BC=B3 =E6=98=8E=E6=9C=9D";
>> mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;
>> mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria;
>> mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
>> mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
>> mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
>> mso-fareast-language:JA;}
>> @page WordSection1
>> {size:8.5in 11.0in;
>> margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;
>> mso-header-margin:.7in;
>> mso-footer-margin:.7in;
>> mso-paper-source:0;}
>> div.WordSection1
>> {page:WordSection1;}
>> -->
>> </style>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_GoBack"></a>Re:</p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have observed this issue to prevent you from
>> logg=
>> ing into the app and to cause some instances of error 108 when attempting
>> playback.<= /p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0</p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4">Dick, My immediate take on this
>> exa=
>> mple was like yours.
>> However, I looked in my copy of John Sinclair (ed.) 1996. <i>The Collins
>> Co=
>> build Grammar Patters 1: Verbs, </i>Harper Collins<font size=3D"4">, p
>> 296,=
>> </font>and found<i> observe </i>listed among verbs that appear in the V n
>> to-inf pattern =E2=80=93but with the note =E2=80=9Conly in the p=
>> assive=E2=80=9D.<i> </i>This book and <font size=3D"4">the</font> second
>> vo=
>> lume are based on exhaustive searches of the Bank of English which at the
>> time they = were preparing theses books stood at 250 million words. so
>> inclusion in this lis= t implies that observe <span>=C2=A0</span>is found
>> in
>> the V n to-inf pattern (in the passive) sufficiently frequently to meet
>> their crite= ria for inclusion.</font></p><font size=3D"4">
>>
>> </font><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4">The passive version of
>> your =
>> example doesn't sound TOO bad to my ears, so I suspect that this
>> example
>> is more an extension of a known pat= tern rather than a new creation de
>> novo. In fact I wonder if this wording is not= the f<font
>> size=3D"4">i</font>rst version of this sentence, but rather a result of
>> editing to fit the <font size=3D"4">purposes</font> of the larger= text
>> segment. For example someone might have thought that <i>this issue ha= s
>> been observed to =E2=80=A6</i> was too impersonal. If <font size=3D"4">my
>> hunch is anywhere near true the auth= ors certainly missed<font
>> size=3D"4">--at least<font size=3D"4"> fo</font>r= you an<font
>> size=3D"4">d
>> for me.</font></font></font><br></font></p><font = size=3D"4">
>>
>> </font><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"4">Peter</font></p>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 9:24 AM, Dick
>> Vei=
>> t <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"
>> target=3D"_bl=
>> ank">[log in to unmask]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote
>> class=3D"gmail=
>> _quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
>> solid;padding-left:=
>> 1ex"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Some verbs can take both a complement clause
>> and a complement infinitive: <br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">We expected that our
>> dog=
>> would like prosciutto.<br> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.</p><p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"= margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a
>> complement infinitive:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We denied that our dog
>> di=
>> sdains prosciutto.<br> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.</p><p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style= =3D"margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I had assumed =E2=80=9Cobserve=E2=80=9D to be in
>> the=
>> latter category; for example, I wouldn=E2=80=99t say, =E2=80=9CI observed
>> my
>> dog to like prosciu= tto.=E2=80=9D <span>=C2=A0</span>So I was surprised
>> by
>> the following senten= ce in an update notice for an iPad app:</p><p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have observed this
>> iss=
>> ue to prevent you from logging into the app and to cause some instances of
>> error =
>> 108
>> when attempting playback.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>> style=3D"margin-left:.5=
>> in"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I first attempted to read it as an adverbial
>> infinit=
>> ive along these lines:</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have gone to the
>> troub=
>> le of observing this issue in order to prevent you from =E2=80=A6</p><p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal"= style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they
>> me=
>> ant it as a complement.<span> </span>So my question is this:</p><p
>> class=3D"MsoNor= mal"><br></p>
>>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is the use of OBSERVE + complement
>> infinitive:<span>=
>> =C2=A0 </span>(a) in relatively widespread use in contemporary colloquial
>> English; (b) in widespread use in tech-speak but not in colloqui= al
>> English; or (c) merely a singularity in the quoted sentence?</p><p
>> class=3D=
>> "MsoNormal"><br></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dick<br></p> To join or leave
>> this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interf= ace at:
>> <a href=3D"http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html"
>> target=3D"_b=
>> lank">http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html</a>
>> and select "Join or leave the list" <p> Visit ATEG's web
>> site
>> at <a href=3D"http://ateg.org/" target=3D"_blank"=
>>> http://ateg.org/</a>
>> </p></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Peter H.
>> Fries<br><=
>> br>From mid May 2012<br>Box 310 <br>Mount Pleasant MI
>> br>48804<br><br>Phone:=
>> =C2=A0 989-644-3384<br>Cell:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 989-400-3764
>> <br><br>Email=
>> :=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]"
>> target=3D"_blank">fries1ph@gm=
>> ail.com</a><br>
>> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <br>Web page:=C2=A0 <span style=
>> =3D"font-size:11pt;line-height:110%;color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span><a
>> href=3D=
>> "http://cmich.edu/chsbs/x23516.xml"
>> target=3D"_blank"><http://cmich.edu/=
>> chsbs/x23516.xml</a>>=C2=A0 <span
>> style=3D"font-size:11pt;line-height:11=
>> 0%;font-family:"Times New Roman"">[among 'emeritus
>> faculty=
>> 9;]</span> <br><br>From early December 2012 to late April 2013<br>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <p
>> style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:normal"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
>> =A0 </span>5751 N. Kolb Rd.</p><p
>> style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:norma=
>> l">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Unit 28-102<br></p>
>>
>> <p style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:normal"><span>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
>> </s=
>> pan><span></span>Tucson AZ 85750</p><p
>> pan>style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:=
>> normal">phone: 520-329-8420</p><p
>> style=3D"margin-top:0in;line-height:norma=
>> l">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 cell: 989-400-3764<br> </p>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 <br> To join or leave this
>> LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>> <p>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> --f46d042c64b9aa8b6b04d709b29a--
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 04:56:11 +0000
>> From: "Stahlke, Herbert" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Subject: Re: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>>
>> --_000_700A1F8C8A177945B3FF7C2CA226F89333DE1BBESN2PRD0510MB358_
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>> I don't know that I've heard "observe" + complement infinitive, but
>> there's=
>> a toilet paper add on TV currently in which a bear cub says, "We all go,
>> s=
>> o why not enjoy to go." I've heard "enjoy" + infinitive before from
>> colleg=
>> e students, but it's not a part of my English. Is it, as it appears to
>> me,=
>> a generational change? In my variety of English, the infinitive cooccurs
>> =
>> more consistently in non-assertive clauses. This appears to be changing.
>>
>> Herb
>>
>> Herbert F. W. Stahlke, Ph.D.
>> Emeritus Professor of English
>> Ball State University
>> Muncie, IN 47306
>> [log in to unmask]
>> ________________________________
>> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
>> [[log in to unmask]
>> U] on behalf of Dick Veit [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:24 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: OBSERVE + complement infinitive
>>
>> Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a complement infinitive:
>>
>> We expected that our dog would like prosciutto.
>> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.
>>
>> Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a complement infinitive:
>>
>> We denied that our dog disdains prosciutto.
>> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.
>>
>> I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter category; for example, I
>> wo=
>> uldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like prosciutto.=94 So I was
>> surpris=
>> ed by the following sentence in an update notice for an iPad app:
>>
>> We have observed this issue to prevent you from logging into the app and
>> to=
>> cause some instances of error 108 when attempting playback.
>>
>> I first attempted to read it as an adverbial infinitive along these lines:
>>
>> We have gone to the trouble of observing this issue in order to prevent
>> you=
>> from =85
>>
>> After puzzling it out, of course, I realized they meant it as a
>> complement.=
>> So my question is this:
>>
>> Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive: (a) in relatively
>> widesprea=
>> d use in contemporary colloquial English; (b) in widespread use in
>> tech-spe=
>> ak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely a singularity in the
>> quoted=
>> sentence?
>>
>> Dick
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface =
>> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or
>> leave=
>> the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>> at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> --_000_700A1F8C8A177945B3FF7C2CA226F89333DE1BBESN2PRD0510MB358_
>> Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>>
>> <html dir=3D"ltr">
>> <head>
>> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html;
>> charset=3DWindows-1=
>> 252"> <style id=3D"owaParaStyle" type=3D"text/css"><!--P
>> {margin-top:0;margin-bot= tom:0;}--></style> </head> <body ocsi=3D"0"
>> fpstyle=3D"1"> <div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
>> #000000;font-size: = 10pt;">I don't know that I've heard
>> "observe"
>> + complement in= finitive, but there's a toilet paper add on TV
>> currently in which a bear cu= b says, "We all go, so why not enjoy to
>> go." I've heard "enjoy" + infinitive before from
>> college students, but= it's not a part of my English. Is it, as it
>> appears to me, a generat= ional change? In my variety of English,
>> the
>> infinitive cooccurs more = consistently in non-assertive clauses.
>> This
>> appears to be changing.<br> <br> Herb <br> <div><br> <div
>> class=3D"BodyFragment"><font size=3D"2"> <div class=3D"PlainText">Herbert
>> F.
>> W. Stahlke, Ph.D.<br> Emeritus Professor of English<br> Ball State
>> University<br> Muncie, IN 47306<br> [log in to unmask]</div>
>> </font></div> </div> <div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color:
>> #000000; font-size: 16px= "> <hr tabindex=3D"-1"> <div style=3D"direction:
>> ltr;" id=3D"divRpF803938"><font color=3D"#000000" = size=3D"2"
>> face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Assembly for the Teaching of Englis= h
>> Grammar
>> [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Dick Veit [dickveit@GMAIL=
>> .COM]<br>
>> <b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 03, 2013 11:24 AM<br> <b>To:</b>
>> [log in to unmask]<br> <b>Subject:</b> OBSERVE + complement
>> infinitive<br> </font><br> </div> <div></div> <div> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal">Some verbs can take both a complement clause and a c=
>> omplement infinitive:
>> <br>
>> </p>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
>> </p>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:0.5in">We expected that our
>> dog=
>> would like prosciutto.<br> We expected our dog to like prosciutto.</p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal">Other verbs can take a complement clause but not a c=
>> omplement infinitive:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We denied that our dog di=
>> sdains prosciutto.<br> *We denied our dog to disdain prosciutto.</p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal">I had assumed =93observe=94 to be in the latter cate=
>> gory; for example, I wouldn=92t say, =93I observed my dog to like
>> prosciutt=
>> o.=94
>> <span> </span>So I was surprised by the following sentence in an
>> updat=
>> e notice for an iPad app:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have observed this iss=
>> ue
>> to prevent you from logging into the app and to cause some instances of =
>> error 108 when attempting playback.</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>> style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I first
>> attempted to read it as an adverbial infinit= ive along these lines:</p>
>> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>> style=3D"margin-left:.5in">We have gone to the troub= le of observing this
>> issue in order to prevent you from =85</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"
>> style=3D"margin-left:.5in"><br> </p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">After puzzling
>> it out, of course, I realized they me= ant it as a complement.<span>
>> </span>So my question is this:</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p> <p
>> class=3D"MsoNormal">Is the use of OBSERVE + complement infinitive:<s=
>> pan> </span>
>> (a) in relatively widespread use in contemporary colloquial English; (b)
>> in=
>> widespread use in tech-speak but not in colloquial English; or (c) merely
>> =
>> a singularity in the quoted sentence?</p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br> </p>
>> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dick<br> </p> To join or leave this LISTSERV list,
>> please visit the list's web interface =
>> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join
>> or =
>> leave the list" <p>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ </p>
>> </div> </div> </div> </body> </html> To join or leave this LISTSERV list,
>> please visit the list's web interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>> <p>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>> --_000_700A1F8C8A177945B3FF7C2CA226F89333DE1BBESN2PRD0510MB358_--
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of ATEG Digest - 2 Mar 2013 to 3 Mar 2013 (#2013-19)
>> ********************************************************
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
>> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
|
