I agree with Karl's explanation and Glenda's solution.. Off hand, I first thought of "my and my wife's."
Scott Catledge
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> There are 4 messages totalling 286 lines in this issue.
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> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Double possessive (4)
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> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:14:05 -0500
> From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Double possessive
>
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> I keep wanting to raise this question to the list=2C but somehow never have=
> a good example at the time I think of it=2C but I just ran into an example=
> that presents an excellent case of the problem of I guess what could be ca=
> lled a "double possessive" - where a noun and a pronoun are both used as po=
> ssessives.
> =20
> Here it is: "Words cannot describe my wife's and my grief" (from a news art=
> icle). This construction has always struck me as exceedingly awkward=2C and=
> my grammar instinct tells me it should have a solution based on another co=
> nstruction=2C but it escapes me.
> =20
> Suggestions anybody? Or am I just being overly picky?
> =
>
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> --_2ade2bd1-47e9-41fa-924b-51af33ae1d36_
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> <body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>I keep wanting to raise this que=
> stion to the list=2C but somehow never have a good example at the time I th=
> ink of it=2C but I just ran into an example that presents an excellent case=
>  =3Bof the problem of I guess what could be called a "double possessive=
> " - where a noun and a pronoun are both used as possessives.<BR> =3B<BR=
> >Here it is: "Words cannot describe my wife's and my grief" =3B(from a =
> news article). =3BThis construction has always struck me as exceedingly=
> awkward=2C and my =3Bgrammar instinct tells me it =3Bshould have a=
> solution based on another construction=2C but it escapes me.<BR> =3B<B=
> R>Suggestions anybody? Or am I just being overly picky?<BR> </di=
> v></body>
> </html>=
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 22:17:46 -0400
> From: Josalyn Lee <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Double possessive
>
> --Apple-Mail-E8F5B3A9-C15C-4219-A3BB-020E9A841024
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> Mine and my wife's grief... would be acceptable.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 17, 2013, at 10:14 PM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:=
>
>
> > I keep wanting to raise this question to the list, but somehow never have a=
> good example at the time I think of it, but I just ran into an example that=
> presents an excellent case of the problem of I guess what could be called a=
> "double possessive" - where a noun and a pronoun are both used as possessiv=
> es.
> > =20
> > Here it is: "Words cannot describe my wife's and my grief" (from a news ar=
> ticle). This construction has always struck me as exceedingly awkward, and m=
> y grammar instinct tells me it should have a solution based on another const=
> ruction, but it escapes me.
> > =20
> > Suggestions anybody? Or am I just being overly picky?
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface=
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> <html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Mine and my wife's grief... would be acceptable.<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Aug 17, 2013, at 10:14 PM, Geoffrey Layton <<a href="mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
>
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> <div dir="ltr">I keep wanting to raise this question to the list, but somehow never have a good example at the time I think of it, but I just ran into an example that presents an excellent case of the problem of I guess what could be called a "double possessive" - where a noun and a pronoun are both used as possessives.<br> <br>Here it is: "Words cannot describe my wife's and my grief" (from a news article). This construction has always struck me as exceedingly awkward, and my grammar instinct tells me it should have a solution based on another construction, but it escapes me.<br> <br>Suggestions anybody? Or am I just being overly picky?<br> </div>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 21:38:16 -0500
> From: "Conway, Glenda" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Double possessive
>
> I think I would go with "the grief my wife and I feel."
>
> Glenda
>
>
>
> Glenda Conway
>
> Professor, English
>
> Coordinator, Harbert Writing Center
>
> Department of English and Foreign Languages
>
> University of Montevallo
>
> Montevallo, AL 35115
>
> 205 665 6425 office
>
> 205 482 4380 cell
>
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [[log in to unmask]
> U] On Behalf Of Josalyn Lee [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:17 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Double possessive
>
> Mine and my wife's grief... would be acceptable.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 17, 2013, at 10:14 PM, Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]<mailto=
> :[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> I keep wanting to raise this question to the list, but somehow never have a=
> good example at the time I think of it, but I just ran into an example tha=
> t presents an excellent case of the problem of I guess what could be called=
> a "double possessive" - where a noun and a pronoun are both used as posses=
> sives.
>
> Here it is: "Words cannot describe my wife's and my grief" (from a news art=
> icle). This construction has always struck me as exceedingly awkward, and m=
> y grammar instinct tells me it should have a solution based on another cons=
> truction, but it escapes me.
>
> Suggestions anybody? Or am I just being overly picky?
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave=
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> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 20:12:10 -0700
> From: Karl Hagen <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Double possessive
>
> If you want to follow the normal prescriptive rule, I think your stuck =
> with either "my wife's and my," "my and my wife's," or a total rewrite, =
> along the lines Glenda suggests.
>
> Our instinctive sense that it's wrong, though, suggests that the =
> prescriptive rule of case assignment (what I call "tricklle-down case") =
> may not exactly capture the way English really works.
>
> Descriptively, I think you would be most likely to hear "me and my =
> wife's grief," apart from those who have so internalized the =
> prescriptive pattern that they avoid "me and X" as a matter of course.
>
> I believe what's happening here is that the genitive marker attaches not =
> to the word but to the phrase/coordination (cf., "the duchess of York's =
> dress"--it's the duchess who has the dress, not York; similarly, "Romeo =
> and Juliet's love"). What we really have, therefore, is a coordination =
> marked with the genitive:
> [[pronoun] & NP]'s, and the way English really works in such instances =
> is to stick with the default, objective case for the pronoun. Note that =
> you can also find people using the pattern [NP & me]'s, which lends =
> support to my hypothesis about where the genitive marker tends to =
> attach.
>
> Karl
>
> On Aug 17, 2013, at 7:14 PM, Geoffrey Layton wrote:
>
> > I keep wanting to raise this question to the list, but somehow never =
> have a good example at the time I think of it, but I just ran into an =
> example that presents an excellent case of the problem of I guess what =
> could be called a "double possessive" - where a noun and a pronoun are =
> both used as possessives.
> > =20
> > Here it is: "Words cannot describe my wife's and my grief" (from a =
> news article). This construction has always struck me as exceedingly =
> awkward, and my grammar instinct tells me it should have a solution =
> based on another construction, but it escapes me.
> > =20
> > Suggestions anybody? Or am I just being overly picky?
> > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web =
> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select =
> "Join or leave the list"
> > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of ATEG Digest - 27 Jun 2013 to 17 Aug 2013 (#2013-41)
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