Herb & Steve,
I'm thinking the object complement difficulty is not a new problem with the diagrams. The subject complement may be adjective or noun, and no distinction is made in the diagram. They seem to expect that we should live with this ambiguity. I would suggest that the ambiguity of category with the object complement be handled the same way. In other words, the problem with their diagram may actually be with their analysis.
The problem of an adverb (phrase) in subject complement position, "He is here" is treated as though it were a modifier of the verb, rather than its complement. It seems R&K felt that the linking verb was enough to show the difference. Yet they ignored the adverb phrase as subject, "Over the ditch is out of bounds." It is not even decided by some which phrase is subject and which complement. I suggest these phrases be put on stilts. (Another use for stilts that seems to help with some kinds of adverbial clauses.)
Nowadays, "complement" means complement of the verb in the predicate, so that the term "subject complement" is not always understood. It contrasts with "object complement," but even this is a complement of the verb in the predicate. They each attribute their meaning to the subject or object respectively. They may be nominal, adjectival, or even adverbial (especially place and time).
Bruce
--- [log in to unmask] wrote:
From: "STAHLKE, HERBERT F" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Take me fishing - Make me smile - Reed-Kellogg diagrams
Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2011 13:33:23 -0500
Steve,
I have time only for a brief response just now, so I'll talk about just two problems with RK.
The first is the failure to separate structure and function, a problem that pervades tradition school grammar. The typical main clause diagram does a reasonable job of representing different sentence types, at least linking, intransitive, and transitive. However, it makes category implicit. We infer that a subject or an object is a noun because RK doesn't specify category. On the other hand it does specify subject and object relations reasonably well.
The second is the failure to distinguish between modifiers and complements. With a ditransitive verb, the indirect object is a complement, not a modifier, as in "He gave her a ring," but it is represented as a modifier. In "the ring was too small," "too small" is clearly distinguished as a subject complement or predicate adjective. However, in "She considered the ring too small," where "too small" is an object complement RK treats it as a modifier. It's functional relationship to "the ring" hasn't changed, but the absence of "to be" from the clause leads RK to obscure that fact.
While I am sure that others on the list could provide other weaknesses in RK, I think a lot of us would still agree that it has some valuable strengths as a pedagogical tool.
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Benton, Steve
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2011 6:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Take me fishing - Make me smile - Reed-Kellogg diagrams
I find it hard to resist sentence diagramming (Reed Kellogg-style) when I am teaching grammar and wish I were more aware of its flaws. The most obvious one is that it requires memorization of a number of symbols (lines, dotted lines, "platforms," diagonal lines, etc.) in addition to the memorization of the categories they represent. I do not doubt that when it comes to describing the complexity of the language, RK sentence diagrams may occasionally prove to be crude instruments (are there any other kind, though?). With that in mind, I wonder if the following two cases are representative of the flaws of sentence diagramming:
1) Make me smile.
2) Take me fishing.
It seems to me that in example number one, "me smile" could be a nominative clause that functions as a direct object. If I were diagramming it, I would put "me" on a diagonal line in the subject position (which seems counterintuitive since "me" is objective case) and put the entire clause on a "platform" in the object position. Is that what RK would do with this sentence? What would Reed Kellogg do with the Star Trek command: "Make it so"?
I'm not sure what RK would do with example number two.
Thoughts?
Steve Benton
Assistant Professor
Department of English and Languages
East Central University
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