--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
--- On Sun, 12/13/09, Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> From: Brad Johnston <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "We speak English ...
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 1:47 PM
> Brad: I like sugar in my
> tea.
>
> Bob & Craig: Brad fills his cup
> with sugar and then pours in the tea.
>
> Scheeesch.
>
> --- On Sun, 12/13/09, Robert Yates
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert Yates <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: "We speak English ...
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Sunday, December 13, 2009, 1:15 PM
>
>
> As someone who is actually involved
> in having more people learn English as a second language (I
> teach non-native speakers of English and pre-service ESL
> teachers), Craig is absolutely correct.
>
> We are a country with a great numbers of different
> cultures. I have no idea how discussing those cultures
> impedes learning English.
>
> A lot of what Brad shared with us doesn't seem anything
> even a conservative in Australia would say. The US, unlike
> Australia, broke ties with UK early and rejected ever having
> a state religion. In fact, our constitution denies having
> any religious test for office. We have never
> recognized the President of a protector of any faith.
>
> I have had the good fortune of living in France for over
> two years. So, I was never "just" a
> tourist.
> I have never experienced the following:
>
> > In my travels in France, I have had a number of
> Frenchmen say to me, in
> > English, "Of
> course I speak English but you are in my country and we
> will
> > speak French", to which the only reasonable reply
> is, oui, bien sur --
> > yes, of course.
>
> No one ever made fun of how heavily accented and
> ungrammatical my French was. I was welcomed into
> people's homes and shared drinks with French wherever I
> went.
>
> Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri
>
>
> >>> Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>
> 12/13/09 11:28 AM >>>
> Is there any evidence that "honoring
> other cultures in the classroom"
> impedes teaching English? My experience has been directly
> the
> opposite. Are there schools in the US that don't value
> English
> instruction? Does anyone on list know of such a school?
> We are a nation of immigrants and a
> nation built on separation
> of
> church and state, but we have always been a nation in
> which
> anti-immigrant sentiment has been used to divide us, often
> fanned for
> selfish political purposes.
> I hope we are all in favor of teaching
> languages other than English and
> in favor of respecting those languages when students bring
> them to
> school. It is nonsense to suggest that this is some sort of
> trade-off.
> I hope we can conduct our discussions on the basis of what
> is really
> happening and avoid divisive distortions.
>
> Craig
>
>
> What I hoped you'd see in the quote, regardless of its
> origin, is, "We
> > speak English, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese,
> Japanese, Russian,
> > or any other language. If you wish to become part of
> our society, learn
> > our language", which is a point well-taken, and
> relevant to English
> > teachers worrying about honoring other cultures in the
> classroom.
> >
> > In my travels
> in France, I have had a number of Frenchmen say to me, in
> > English, "Of course I speak English but you are
> in my country and we will
> > speak French", to which the only reasonable reply
> is, oui, bien sur --
> > yes, of course.
> >
> > .brad.12dec09.
> >
> > --- On Sat, 12/12/09, O'Sullivan, Brian P <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: O'Sullivan, Brian P <[log in to unmask]>
> > Subject: Re: "We speak English ...
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Date: Saturday, December 12, 2009, 11:32
> AM
> >
> >
> > According to
> > http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml<http://www.hoax-slayer.com/howard-muslim-speech.shtml>,
> > much of this was said by other officials and
> misattributed to Howard, and
> > Rudd had nothing to do with it. This item has been
> going around in emails
> > for a while, and in some versions the attribution was
> changed from Howard
> > to Rudd after the change of
> administrations--apparently to keep the
> > message "relevant," though not factual.
> >
> > Brian
> > ________________________________
> > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> > [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brad Johnston
> > [[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 10:13 AM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: "We speak English ...
> >
> > (Photo of Prime Minister Rudd rejected by ATEG because
> all jpeg formats
> > are rejected. Ask Google if you want to see what he
> looks like. )
> >
> >
> > Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia.
> >
> > Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were
> told on Wednesday
> > to get out of Australia, as the government targeted
> radicals in a bid to
> > head off potential terror attacks.
> >
> > Separately,
> Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by
> saying
> > he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's
> mosques.
> >
> > "Immigrants, not Australians, must adapt. Take It
> Or Leave It. I am tired
> > of this nation worrying about whether we are offending
> some individual or
> > their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali ,
> we have experienced a
> > surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.
> >
> > "This culture has been developed over two
> centuries of struggles, trials
> > and victories by millions of men and women who have
> sought freedom. We
> > speak English, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese,
> Japanese, Russian,
> > or any other language. If you wish to become part of
> our society, learn
> > our language!
> >
> > "Most Australians believe in God. This is not
> some Christian, right-wing,
> > political push, but a fact, because Christian men and
> women founded
> this
> > nation on Christian principles and this is clearly
> documented. It is
> > certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of
> our schools. If God
> > offends you, then I suggest you consider another part
> of the world as your
> > new home, because God is part of our culture.
> >
> > "We will accept your beliefs, and will not
> question why. All we ask is
> > that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful
> enjoyment with us."
> >
> > "This is OUR country. OUR land, and OUR
> lifestyle, and we will allow you
> > every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are
> done complaining,
> > whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our
> Christian beliefs, or
> > Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage
> of one other great
> > Australian freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
> >
> > "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We
> didn't force you to come here.
> > You asked to be
> here. So accept the country YOU accepted or leave
> it."
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
As a naturalized United States citizen, who happens to be from Iran and speaks two other languages(other than English), by the virtue of having been born and brought up in Iran, I absolutely have no problem whatsoever ever with the idea of requiring all immigrants to lean English. Myself and thousands like myself had to learn English to assimilate into this culture and I know of not one single individual who resents that requirement. I think we do a disservice to all minorities in this country(myself included)when we send confusing mixed messages that suddenly English is not our language, when the international world for years now has seen English as America's language. There are people in places like Armenia, Kazakhstan and the like who pay money they can't even afford, in order to learn English, in the hope that someday they can migrate to the United States. It is a complete disservice to those immigrants when they do all that work, come here and see
that this nation does not honor her own language. It is very disappointing.
Requiring that English be spoken as the official language of the United States is in fact open mindedness, in the sense that America realizes most people in the world are already familiar with English and have no objection to learning it and also in the sense that America does not all of a sudden wish to throw a curve ball at Indian, Pakistani, Arab, Russian, and other immigrant minorities with yet another language burden by requiring these other minorities to learn yet another language other than English. It is also open mindedness for some one who is from Armenia, for example is already at the least tri-lingual(usually Armenian, Russian and English). This Armenian immigrant would then be allowed to assimilate into English more by living here and promote her own language of Armenian for her children and grand children. If she is required to learn yet another language other than English, she further goes into the never never land of never having an
opportunity to honor her own language in her own house with her own culture and people because America is now all of a sudden requiring her to learn yet another European language instead practice her own indigenous language of Armenian. Life is short and we don't all have an eternity(at least in this earth and life time) to continue learning other languages. It is right and in deed equal protection for all minorities if America would stop feeling guilty for having English as her language. By the way in the Iran I lived in at least for 16 years, Farsi was and is the state language. As an Azerbaijani an Iranian, who happens to speak Azeri because that is my ethnicity, I personally see that as having been right. You see I understand that my Azeri ethnicity is not the only minority in Iran; there are others like rash-ti, mazandarani, Kurdish and the like; the Farsi language united us, and I am grateful for that language unity; it is good to have it so
there is communication that is common for all. To this day, I believe that Farsi must be the official language of Iran and I will believe that to the day I die, just as I believe that English must be the official language of the United States and will believe that to the day that I pass on from this earth.
Thanks for the discussion. You all have a Merry Christmas and holiday season, as well as a great new year.
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