Dear shun,
My comments are below and within
shun Tang wrote:
> Dear Paticia,
>
> You wrote:
> > To my mind Simple would be what seems 'endless
> > present time' and Progressive, the present action which
> > 'has to have an end..'
> > They feed the lions at quarter past two every day.
> >
> My reply: We know that when the park closes within next four years, we will
> not feed them any more. At this situation, shall we use the Simple Present?
> Personally, I think we do.
ANSWER: We do, because it's organized, a regular timetable, compare with other
timetables for buses and planes etc.
buses run every 5 mins/ the flight to Paris takes off....
>
>
> For another example, now I live in Hong Kong. But when I am old I will go to
> Australia to live with my family. Knowing my living in HK has an end, shall
> I say "I am living in Hong Kong"?
ANSWER: No, because when you are old is a different period of time or time of your
life. At this stage you live in Hong Kong and use Simple, just like a kid says 'I
go to school from Monday to Friday and live in New York.' Although he knows this
will change at another stage of his life.The regularity with which this takes
place is over such a period of time that it, as any school kid will tell you,
seems endless subjectively!
This also covers your comments about the baby in your last mail,
< mother says, "My baby eats 5 bottles of milk every day." Because she uses
Simple Present, according to Patricia, the baby eats the amount of milk, for
the rest of his endless life. Where do we go wrong? How many times we use
Simple Present in one day? How many times we check if it is endless? Would
Patricia tell us how to check?>
At this baby stage of life the child drinks 5 bottles of milk a day. If I may
allow myself to correct you. 'eats' would imply consuming the entire bottle,
glass, plastic or whatever. Simple implies 'normally','usually' at this stage of
life, or at present.
If I'm sitting in a restaurant and hear someone say 'I'm drinking coffee', I can
assume they will be drinking coffee even if I don't see them. If I hear they say
'I drink coffee', it implies they generally, normally, ususally drink coffee. I
won't know for sure what they are drinking at that moment but I know it's a
habitual action for this person to drink coffee. We also use logic and common
sense applicable to the situation. By the way, as the mother of 5, I can assure
you I am no longer forcing 5 bottles of milk down the throats of 16 - 24 year
olds. My common sense told me when the baby days were over.
>
> Logically, everything will have an end,
COMMENT: this is a philosophical question.
> which is known by normal persons.
NO COMMENT.
> In
> this case, we will not use Simple Present at all?
IS this a question?
>
>
> You seem to replace the difficulty with impossibility, replacing the
> question of present with that of endless.
COMMENT: I seem to remember I picked up 'endless' from your mail and used your
words as I felt you were near to a definition. I'm not too sure of that now. I
would prefer to use a word something like habitual.As you once said
<I hope you have seen the heading question.>
You wanted to define a present action. A pure, observable present action is
described with progressive, 'He is talking' Our knowledge can put it into Simple,
'He talks on the radio', if I know it's his job, at the present time, (which you
defined as endless and I prefer to see in stages)
> But how to define 'endless'? How
> do native English speakers predict the action is endless?
ANSWER: Predictions usually begin with 'will' or 'going to'. If you visit a
fortune teller you might hear 'You will be a rich man' or ' You are going to meet
a tall, dark stranger and live a life of luxury'
Endless: Simple! 'He talks and talks and talks' implies endlessly.
'He's always talking' would imply some annoyance on the part of the speaker as the
regular rule is Simple with the adverb 'always'
You wrote:
< Or does the present action have nothing to do with Simple Present tense at all?>
Prabably right if you mean the observable action at a certain moment, unless we go
into dramatic descriptions like the commentaries of football games.
However, there are a great many finer points to any language. My children speak
English, German, Russian and Dutch and I just make sure they spend as much time as
they can in those countries to perfect their feeling for the language as it is
spoken and understood by the inhabitants. School rules helped them to begin with,
then total immersion in the language and culture to broaden their mentality ( my
son can laugh at Russian jokes which I can't understand, however finely translated
or described!). My daughter is now studying in Holland. However, she is using the
language not studying it. She probably accepted a lot of the new 'rules' she
learned in the country without much philosophizing as her main aim is to
communicate. If she were to study the language in depth, it would be easier for
her now as she has a greater understanding, not only of the language but of the
people and the way they think.
Patsi
>
>
> Since emails cannot handle a long discussion, you are invited to use the
> following forum:
> http://www.englishtense.com/forum.asp
>
> Shun
> englishtense.com
> ===========
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patricia Reeve-De Becker" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:58 AM
> Subject: Re: How to define a 'present action'?
>
> > Dear shun,
> > Quote:
> > <(For the time being, shall we skip the difference between Simple Present
> and
> > Present Progressive for a while?)>
> >
> > There's no need to skip the difference as I feel you've just defined it.
> >
> > <"Most confusing, 'present time' seems endless, but present action has to
> have
> > an end..">
> > To my mind
> > Simple would be what seems 'endless present time' and
> > Progressive, the present action which 'has to have an end..'
> > e.g.
> > It's quarter past two and they're feeding the lions at the Zoo - Let's
> go...
> > They feed the lions at quarter past two every day. Let's go tomorrow.
> >
> > What do others think?
> > Or have I misunderstood you
> >
> > shun Tang wrote:
> >
> > > How to define a 'present action'?
> > >
> > > My reason why I ask is, if we can define it, we may explain the Simple
> > > Present tense.
> > > (For the time being, shall we skip the difference between Simple Present
> and
> > > Present Progressive for a while?)
> > > A present action seems to be very basic knowledge, but it is most
> puzzling.
> > > We would say that, logically, the present action happens at the present.
> > > Since the present time is moving continually, however, it is totally
> > > uncertain. So, a present action is very hard to define.
> > >
> > > Most confusing, 'present time' seems endless, but present action has to
> have
> > > an end. Therefore, a present time is different to a present action.
> > >
> > > How do English native speakers split the nuance? Or does the present
> action
> > > have nothing to do with Simple Present tense at all?
> > >
> > > Shun
> > > englishtense.com
> > >
> >
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