On Nov 21, 2010, at 7:39 PM, Craig Hancock wrote:
> Do you believe that dictionaries can't be scientific?

Do you believe that discographies can't be scientific?

> Prescriptive grammarians often seem to have a messianic passion behind
> their activities. It hardly seems scientific.

Correct.  Prescriptive grammarians are pseudoscientists.   Messianic means you think you know what is "truth" and right for all people when you don't because other people have a different "truth."  Scientists aren't messianic, yet they tell Truth. 

What Truth do grammarians have to tell?













>>>   If the main points you are trying to make are...
>> 
>> In this thread I have had only one main point:  As a field of inquiry,
>> grammar is not science.
>> 
>> I know that you understand the stupidity of believing prescriptive grammar
>> is The Way.  But if you believe grammar is ultimately scientific, then you
>> contradict yourself.   Ultimately grammar is democratic.  But science
>> doesn't vote.
>> 
>> That crazy "had" guy on this list demands we all follow a scientific,
>> prescriptive rule he learned once.  Most of us laugh, but those of you who
>> believe grammar is science, can't laugh.   Crazy "had" guy puts you, the
>> scientific grammarian, in a bind.  Mediator Girl comes in and says, "You,
>> drop the lab coat.  And, you, drop your dogma."  When you insists your
>> unscientific beliefs are real, you create extremists who refuse to take
>> you metaphorically (because you deny the metaphor).  Maybe if you come
>> clean about the lack of science, crazy "had" guy could move on.  The 72
>> virgins aren't science.  There's no reward for beliefs that aren't real.
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 21, 2010, at 5:10 PM, Craig Hancock wrote:
>> 
>>> Susan,
>>>   If the main points you are trying to make are that grammar should not
>>> be entirely prescriptive and that prescriptive grammarians should not
>>> claim scientific certainty behind their prescriptive rules, I am happy
>>> to agree. Apparently, we have very different ideas about science. To
>>> me, a scientist observes the world and tries to make sense out of it.
>>> He/she may have very human values that drive that--a desire to cure
>>> cancer, for example--but those are not the science. I think there is
>>> room for patient observation and disciplined inquiry in the study of
>>> language. We should understand how it works apart from trying to
>>> control other people's use of it.
>>> 
>>> Craig
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 21, 2010, at 4:25 PM, Craig Hancock wrote:
>>>>> I agree that grammar stops being a science when it becomes narrowly
>>>>> prescriptive.
>>>> 
>>>> You have this completely turned around.  Science is "prescriptive."
>>>> 
>>>> Those who try to put prescriptive rules and laws on language are acting
>>>> as
>>>> though grammar is a science when it clearly is not.  Why do we belittle
>>>> them?  Because they don't get it; grammar is not science.  Your
>>>> insistence
>>>> that grammar is science, means you believe grammar ought to be
>>>> completely
>>>> prescriptive.  If a scientific law only most of the time follows the
>>>> law,
>>>> it is pseudoscience.  Science demands complete obedience.
>>>> 
>>>> We can rail all we want about how unfair it is that the cute fawn with
>>>> the
>>>> damaged foot will be the wolf's target, but the world works without our
>>>> emotions.  Survival of the fittest doesn't care about anything but
>>>> their
>>>> ability to survive.
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>>>> 
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